Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

PH
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby PH » 1 Apr 2019, 12:44pm

It's not a simple subject, confused even more by people mixing up ketotis, fat adaptation and low carb diets, there's some crossover but they are different. There's plenty written about endurance sport and ketotis, and a fair bit more research with ultra runners than with cyclists, all easily accessible. Basically though if you are in ketotis you won't need to eat any differently on a bike ride than at any other time, in nearly all circumstances your energy will come from stored fats. The exception to that is if you need a burst of high intensity when your body will use carbs if available. This is where it can fall apart, too few and you won't preform as well, too many and it'll knock you out of ketotis and you'll need a lot more, how much is right will depend on the individual.
I've given it several goes and can't make it work. I've felt really good in ketotis throughout several 200 and 300km Audax, though not particularly fast by some standards I've done my quickest times at both distances on nothing more than a couple of black coffees and a pocketful of walnuts. I've also had rides that went wrong before the half way point and I struggled to finish. I've come to the conclusion that doing it properly is more of a lifestyle commitment than I'm prepared for.
Last edited by PH on 1 Apr 2019, 12:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

PH
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby PH » 1 Apr 2019, 12:47pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

That's the maximum average speed for Audax and there's some who feel it's restrictive! Outside my experience, but not unrealistic for some.

ianrobo
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby ianrobo » 1 Apr 2019, 1:21pm

PH wrote:I've given it several goes and can't make it work. I've felt really good in ketotis throughout several 200 and 300km Audax, though not particularly fast by some standards I've done my quickest times at both distances on nothing more than a couple of black coffees and a pocketful of walnuts. I've also had rides that went wrong before the half way point and I struggled to finish. I've come to the conclusion that doing it properly is more of a lifestyle commitment than I'm prepared for.


It works for all IMHO if you use it as a base. for myself personally I look to get around most at an average of 23-25kph and keep my HR mainly around Zone 3 and it is great for that. However clearly if you are pushing your HR in zone 4/5 more regularly it will use up your carb stores. So overall it really does depend on your own targets for any given event.

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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby PH » 1 Apr 2019, 1:33pm

ianrobo wrote:It works for all IMHO if you use it as a base.

I'm not sure what you mean by a base? That sounds more like fat adaptation than ketotis
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fat-adapted/

Also, without getting into a fight about it :?
That it doesn't work for all is clearly evidenced by the research.

nez
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby nez » 1 Apr 2019, 3:42pm

PH wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

That's the maximum average speed for Audax and there's some who feel it's restrictive! Outside my experience, but not unrealistic for some.
I don’t doubt it’s true. But still :shock:

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foxyrider
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby foxyrider » 1 Apr 2019, 5:05pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

I've done over 35kph for flat 200km events and it's taken me 13hrs to do a mountain 260km (5500m ascent). Pretty sure 300 in 10 in rolling terrain would be quite doable providing you've done the training and do the right fueling.
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby nez » 1 Apr 2019, 5:28pm

foxyrider wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

I've done over 35kph for flat 200km events and it's taken me 13hrs to do a mountain 260km (5500m ascent). Pretty sure 300 in 10 in rolling terrain would be quite doable providing you've done the training and do the right fueling.


Yes I’m sure you are right. It was a personal point for me. My regular long run is 50k and the longest I’ve ever done is abt 120. Big respect from me.

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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby ianrobo » 1 Apr 2019, 6:31pm

PH wrote:
ianrobo wrote:It works for all IMHO if you use it as a base.

I'm not sure what you mean by a base? That sounds more like fat adaptation than ketotis
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fat-adapted/

Also, without getting into a fight about it :?
That it doesn't work for all is clearly evidenced by the research.


Well to be fat adapted you have to go through ketosis but not stay in it ... that’s my experience and nothing works for all as each of us is different but for the majority, yes it works if you want to try it.

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foxyrider
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby foxyrider » 1 Apr 2019, 6:45pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:
foxyrider wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

I've done over 35kph for flat 200km events and it's taken me 13hrs to do a mountain 260km (5500m ascent). Pretty sure 300 in 10 in rolling terrain would be quite doable providing you've done the training and do the right fueling.


Yes I’m sure you are right. It was a personal point for me. My regular long run is 50k and the longest I’ve ever done is abt 120. Big respect from me.


My best mate has never even done 120km in a day, his general rides are @ the same as yours. I just enjoy going out for a days ride, it could be 100km or 200km, I rarely set out with a set route in mind. OTOH I know that I can do the 200 so there isn't a mental barrier to it, likewise I don't worry about the amount of climbing, I was staggered to get home on Thursday with 130km and 2500m of climbing - it didn't feel like that sort of ride!

Of course, fuelling is the key and of course being comfortable on the bike.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

mattsccm
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby mattsccm » 1 Apr 2019, 7:17pm

Whilst reading this I noticed an interesting bit of text at the bottom of the page. It says "delete all cookies?"
Hmmm

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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby PH » 1 Apr 2019, 7:22pm

mattsccm wrote:Whilst reading this I noticed an interesting bit of text at the bottom of the page. It says "delete all cookies?"
Hmmm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

nez
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby nez » 2 Apr 2019, 3:50pm

foxyrider wrote:My best mate has never even done 120km in a day, his general rides are @ the same as yours. I just enjoy going out for a days ride, it could be 100km or 200km, I rarely set out with a set route in mind. OTOH I know that I can do the 200 so there isn't a mental barrier to it, likewise I don't worry about the amount of climbing, I was staggered to get home on Thursday with 130km and 2500m of climbing - it didn't feel like that sort of ride!

Of course, fuelling is the key and of course being comfortable on the bike.


I expect your mate is doing Sheffield miles. I'm doing Essex and Suffolk miles. I only climb a couple of hundred metres in the 50k

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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby mjr » 3 Apr 2019, 5:32pm

mattsccm wrote:Whilst reading this I noticed an interesting bit of text at the bottom of the page. It says "delete all cookies?"
Hmmm

"Delete all board cookies" on mine. Board is very fibrous but does the body burn it like carbs?
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Re: Keto Diet and Cycling Fitness

Postby dim » 18 May 2019, 9:43pm

PH wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:30kph avg for 10 hrs. Good luck :shock:

That's the maximum average speed for Audax and there's some who feel it's restrictive! Outside my experience, but not unrealistic for some.


the minimum (required) speed for most Audax rides is 15km/hr (but bear in mind that it includes stopping time) ... so you have to ride at 15km/hr the whole way without stopping, so as to finish in time

most people ride a bit faster, and this gives you time in hand to stop and rest/eat

I have heard that the average speed is 23km/hr over the route (the guys who finish middle of the group) ... if you ride faster than 30km/hr you may have to wait at the controls/checkpoints as they will not stamp your card earlier

This year's major Audax ride will be Paris Brest Paris ....

you have a maximum of 90 hrs to complete the ride which is approx 1200 Km long with approx 11000 meters elevation (a tough ride)