Heart rate monitors

Bonefishblues
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Bonefishblues » 1 Feb 2019, 1:32pm

Audax67 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Audax67 wrote:
Mine definitely isn't a novelty; 3 stents in, it's a medical necessity. I have very definite limits to observe.

FWIW mine's synced to my Garmin eTrex, and I have a program that displays graphs of a whole trip for altitude, heart rate, slope, speed, wattage and temperature, analyses heart rate vs time spent at that rate, and derives a fitness index based on average wattage and average heart rate. It also maintains a database of performance vs distance vs slope, which allow me to take the GPX of a ride I haven't done and inject my probable performance figures. Useful.

Indeed, I have a 'proper job' too:

https://www.alivecor.com/


That's nifty. Must see if my doc will prescribe one. Doubt it.

Not big bucks - bought mine myself after tiring of wearing a Holter and missing episodes!

Tangled Metal
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Tangled Metal » 7 May 2020, 11:02am

Old thread but interesting.

Re locking chest straps that's something I found annoying. I'd use one with a Garmin 25 head unit riding to work. To get a signal I'd have go run the strap pickups under the tap, warm in winter. However most rides in and home I got drop offs such that the hr graph was broken many times in just half an hour. I used to own an old fashioned cardiosport HRM that only measured that via an analogue chest strap. I never remembered that one losing connection.

The strap I used more recently was the most current strap from Garmin at the time and linked only with a Garmin head unit. So you'd think it would work better together. Needless to say when I lost connection before leaving home or work I'd either have to use my water bottle to wet it (not when using a flavoured drink) or saliva. The issue sometimes got so bad I'd have no signal for most of the ride then I'd suddenly get a high reading before it settled down for if I'm lucky 10 minutes of readings.

Now I've got a Fitbit surge chest, optical unit. It's accuracy might not be as good as chest straps, well some chest straps at least, but it's good enough for non competitive athletes such as us (the old runners forum debate over whether you're a runner or jogger with associated snobbery applies). It's trends really that such watches are good for. Plus you will probably temper them with perceived effort anyway. We all know when it's not feeling right so we back off right?

If you're serious about training, such as for a specific goal, then power is more reliable. Indeed many experts reckon perceived effort (RPE) is considered more reliable than hr with even a strap. One big reason is there's a delay between what I guess is physical effort and the change that causes in your hr. Power is immediate as is perceived effort.

Newer trackers, or older ones with updates, can also give you indications as to physical / mental stress. For example wake up for your daily run and you've got a high stress score it's a good bet you've over trained and need to take it easy. This is an algorithm based on heart rate variability. Aiui that's the variation in time between peaks of your pulse. More irregularities the more your heart has been stressed. It's a measure I first read about being studied back in 2013/4 or earlier when the earliest optical hrm units were being developed. Iirc it was the basis who were working with an American sports and medical science department in a prominent university with a good rep in the topic. They were looking into developing HRV algorithms and their testing was indicating the huge potential in optical hrm units for this measure and others too. The company got taken over by Intel iirc back when health and medical trackers were being seen by the big tech firms as having a huge potential for business. Life science is big business.

Personally, we're still not where we will get with these things. Tech is being improved each generation beyond just adding measures to the apps.

BTW I'm looking at the charge 4 and vivosport. It's interesting to note that it's taken from 2017 to 2020 for fitbit to copy the vivosport GPS with hrm features in that tracker format. The charge 4 only just pips the garmin unit IF you value the fitbit app and the Fitbit payment function. Personally I don't rate Fitbit app so highly if you're interested in fitness data. It's an encouragement tool to get healthy imho which isn't a bad thing but if you're interested in pushing things a bit more I feel you have to leave Fitbit ecosystem.

My advice is Garmin even polar. In fact polar are back to pushing the ecosystem and devices. For example there's a budget to mid range tracker smart watch device that's taking the coaching idea further with more tailored exercise routines sent to your watch. With better and more personal insights or goal setting.

I think I'm getting the vivosport soon. It's not necessarily much different from my surge just a little more function. Among three functions I like is the ANT+ broadcast to my Garmin 25 head unit. Fishing out my cadence sensor as well will make the head unit and Garmin app more data rich. Not sure how much use it'll be but I'm doing more fitness during lockdown than before it. I'm looking at taking fitness more seriously after lockdown so it might help there.

Wish I could afford the Garmin vivoactive 4 or even 3 which is supposed to be better.

Mike Sales
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Mike Sales » 7 May 2020, 11:13am

I too have found getting a chest strap to pick up my ticking.
I found a recipe for a contact gel which helped.

1 tablespoon of salt per 100ml of Aloe Vera gel.

The gel was available in my local chemist, which dedicated gel for the purpose, or for an ultrasound probe, was not.

mikeymo
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby mikeymo » 9 May 2020, 12:50pm

I just bought a Polar H10. I've also got a Polar H7.

The H7 (bought used) has generally been good, but with spikes and troughs recently on windy downhills, with a synthetic shirt. 215 to 0 spikes and troughs. It's not my heart, it's the HRM.

So I bought an H10. I really bought it for the strap, which is different to the strap with the H7. So far no spikes or troughs, even when I've "tried" to make them happen. I'll keep trying, but so far looking good.

So my intermediate conclusion is that the Polar Pro strap (that comes with the H10) is more reliable than the Polar Soft strap (that comes with the H7).

bazzo
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby bazzo » 12 May 2020, 9:10pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can- ... e3681f47fa



This link may be worth reading before buying a HRM.

mikeymo
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby mikeymo » 13 May 2020, 1:38am

bazzo wrote:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-a-25-pulse-oximeter-really-save-your-life-we-test-it-out-3n3xwhvps?shareToken=fef5aca079f611266592f4e3681f47fa



This link may be worth reading before buying a HRM.


Why? What's it about? I started reading, but the "writer" seems to think he's producing the next frigging War and Peace.

Lodge
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Location: Staffordshire Moorlands

Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Lodge » 16 May 2020, 8:07pm

I'm having great fun with my new vívosmart wristwatch-style fitness monitor (thanks to my wife for the present). It links to my old Garmin Edge 800 using ANT+ so I can monitor my heart rate as I ride. I used to have a chest HRM but could never get a consistent connection especially when I got really hot and sweaty.

Even though I now have a e-cycles (bike, trike and tandem) the data in the figure shows that one can still get perfectly good exercise. Today I hit a maximum heart rate of 170 bpm (not bad for a 63 year old) and averaged 130 bpm. The average speed, as one might have hypothesised, was pretty much exactly the motor cutoff point. The trick seems to be to keep applying sufficient pressure to the pedals to keep the heart rate up. As soon as I get towards the motor cutoff it eases down so I automatically end up travelling at 15-16 mph (unless I lower the power setting). For maximum heart rate just select a taller gear, stand up and pump for a minute or so (interval training). See peaks in HR more less correlate with gradients. Some periods of higher HR on the flat were due to going into a stiff breeze.

Brilliant for me as a science-driven data nerd (retired physiologist & mathematical modeller). It also gives me points with my health insurance company which will mean a lower premium on renewal. In other words it will pay for itself as long as I keep riding. No hardship there!

20200516 Delite Rudyard Wincle Flash 33.24 miles.png

mikeymo
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby mikeymo » 16 May 2020, 8:32pm

Lodge wrote: Today I hit a maximum heart rate of 170 bpm (not bad for a 63 year old) and averaged 130 bpm.


I'll see your 170 and raise you 182! At 62 years old.

Image

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foxyrider
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby foxyrider » 16 May 2020, 10:41pm

mikeymo wrote:
Lodge wrote: Today I hit a maximum heart rate of 170 bpm (not bad for a 63 year old) and averaged 130 bpm.


I'll see your 170 and raise you 182! At 62 years old.

Image


should i be worried? i peaked at 154 and averaged 116 on todays ride and i'm a mere 57.

The ride was only 131km run off at an average 25.6kph, ridden to a self karaoke of 70/80's pop tunes :D
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Lodge
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Lodge » 16 May 2020, 11:05pm

Brilliant. It's really good that there are fit and healthy 60+ year olds around still cycling strong!

That said we are all completely normal for a fit and healthy population. See figure below from Nes et al in the Scand J Med Science Sports, 2013, volume 23 on "Age‐predicted maximal heart rate in healthy subjects: The HUNT Fitness Study". There is a reasonable spread of maximal heart rate for our ages (note standard error of 10.8 beats/min; statistically 68% will be within plus or minus one standard deviation, 95% within 1.96 SD).

The algorithm from these authors appears rather more accurate (for us anyway) than the classical 220 minus age equation.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0838.2012.01445.x

4-Figure1-1.png

Tangled Metal
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 May 2020, 9:39am

Every study comes up with a new formula that matches their findings. All are probably correct for their study group but might be still be totally out for you. Find your own max by testing, companies around to do that such as in some gyms, or simply accept it's a guess and keep using the same formula so your training us comparable.

Failing that use power meter instead fit training as it's more accurate than HR based training apparently. I suspect most people using HRM for fitness are not really needing accuracy just s guide. Learning about RPE is probably a better tool during training and then leave the HR monitoring for the nice graphs at the end. Sorry if that's being negative or critical.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 17 May 2020, 10:32am

Hi,
foxyrider wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Lodge wrote: Today I hit a maximum heart rate of 170 bpm (not bad for a 63 year old) and averaged 130 bpm.


I'll see your 170 and raise you 182! At 62 years old.

Image


should i be worried? i peaked at 154 and averaged 116 on todays ride and i'm a mere 57.

The ride was only 131km run off at an average 25.6kph, ridden to a self karaoke of 70/80's pop tunes :D

No! no need to worry at all.
But your figures mean nothing as they are meaningless.
If you need to quote figures you need to quote time and effort mileage and also individual heart rate is totally immaterial considering that individual's heart rate average heart rate varies dramatically Or appears to anyway

If you're actually monitoring your heart rate Foxy Then give your heart rate average as a proportion of your maximum, you can estimate your maximum if you want by what you might have achieved or what you have achieved as your maximum say in the last two or three years then add 5% for a rough calculation.
Then give us a time You were holding his average for?

E.g. 65% of max (theoretical will do, not necessarily achieved) for time on bike, 6 hours 30 minutes.
You will have to remove rest time of the bike for the calculation.
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foxyrider
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby foxyrider » 17 May 2020, 5:20pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:
If you're actually monitoring your heart rate Foxy Then give your heart rate average as a proportion of your maximum, you can estimate your maximum if you want by what you might have achieved or what you have achieved as your maximum say in the last two or three years then add 5% for a rough calculation.
Then give us a time You were holding his average for?

E.g. 65% of max (theoretical will do, not necessarily achieved) for time on bike, 6 hours 30 minutes.
You will have to remove rest time of the bike for the calculation.


Okay, random ride, last Thursday

Max hr 148 / 177 max lty
Avg hr 117 / 177 max lty
6hrs 25min moving time
162km /100 miles
1185m climbing
avg speed 25.2kph

Bit further than usual but a quick glance at other, shorter rides give similar hr figures. I'm sure the Max lty figure could be a chunk higher but i've never set out to test that. I don't ride / train to hrm but use it as a general fitness / health indicator.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

mikeymo
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby mikeymo » 17 May 2020, 6:31pm

foxyrider wrote:Max hr 148 / 177 max lty
Avg hr 117 / 177 max lty


What is "lty"?

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foxyrider
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Re: Heart rate monitors

Postby foxyrider » 19 May 2020, 5:46pm

mikeymo wrote:
foxyrider wrote:Max hr 148 / 177 max lty
Avg hr 117 / 177 max lty


What is "lty"?


last three years
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!