Sore Back on the hills...... why

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Cugel
Posts: 1934
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby Cugel » 2 Feb 2019, 1:47pm

NUKe wrote:
ndwgolf wrote:Monday I did a 92 kilometers ride with 1800 feet of climes. I had a sore lower back from 40 to 60 kilometers (where Mose of the hills are) after the hills I was okay...... tired but okay but with sore knees as well
Wednesday I went for a bike fitting and they made a few adjustments to my Road bike to get my angles correct
Today I did the same ride, back was killing me again from 40 to 60 kilometers, but today my knees were fine........ we also did the ride slower today by 1kph
What’s with the lower back pain on hills?.
I’m 61 years young
6’3”
110 kilos
Bike Trek Madone SLR7

Neil




I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my stupid phone.

Bike fit is not an exact science, despite what they tell you and is geared toward racing in the science part, some bike fitters are a bit more sympathetic and age aware. It might be worth returning to the bike fitter and seeing if they can tweak your fit, most of the ones I know would be only too happy to help and wouldn’t charge to sort out the issue.

One possibility is that the fit is good, and your now able to push harder so the muscles are just doing something they’re not used to. You could try stretching exercise, and see if hat helps.


Bike fits - no science at all really. In practice the human body is a variable item within the main design envelope and wants various positions on a bike to be comfortable, efficient, fast, more stable and/or a list of other attributes required by different styles or habits of bike riding. Moreover, bike fits, as you suggest, are often about some theoretically most-aero or best power-producing position rather than anything else.

Personally I now find I need to be more upright than when a racing fellow, to avoid a general ache of the upper back and neck. Others I know of my age need to have a low front end as it's their lower back that's vulnerable to too much weight acting through it. so a low front handlebar takes some weight off their spine albeit at the cost of stressing their hands, shoulders and neck a bit more. The history of our bodies, as well as their genetic makeup, often requires we adapt in different ways to do different things as we age. Past injuries can be demanding!

Stretching never worked for me although others say it helps. I spent a 6 month trying to make pre-exercise stretching a habit and only achieved half-a-dozen strains from trying to stretch too much too soon. :-)

Cugel

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Paulatic
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby Paulatic » 2 Feb 2019, 2:08pm

Cugel wrote:[quote="
Stretching never worked for me although others say it helps. I spent a 6 month trying to make pre-exercise stretching a habit and only achieved half-a-dozen strains from trying to stretch too much too soon. :-)

Cugel

Stretching before exercise was dicredited years ago. Your experience is further evidence.
Afterwards could be a different matter.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 2 Feb 2019, 3:21pm

It’s more than likely a position / technique issue. Try to keep your back as straight as possible keep your shoulders down and back, and your hips pushed forward during the climbs. It’s all to easy to ride with a curved back and hunched over shoulders on climbs, and you’ll probably need to consciously force yourself to hold the better position at first, when it becomes second nature things should improve. Think more like the guy in front, less like the guys behind, in this photo.

Image

Or like this

Image

Or this ( from one of the greatest climbers ever )

Image

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NUKe
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby NUKe » 2 Feb 2019, 11:56pm

Paulatic wrote:
Cugel wrote:[quote="
Stretching never worked for me although others say it helps. I spent a 6 month trying to make pre-exercise stretching a habit and only achieved half-a-dozen strains from trying to stretch too much too soon. :-)

Cugel

Stretching before exercise was dicredited years ago. Your experience is further evidence.
Afterwards could be a different matter.

I think we may be at cross purposes I wasn’t referring to warming up, but more of a physio type exercise to strengthen the lower back, I didn’t specify any particular exercise as I don’t know Neil and his particular problem.
NUKe
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Cugel
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby Cugel » 3 Feb 2019, 8:39am

NUKe wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
Cugel wrote:[quote="
Stretching never worked for me although others say it helps. I spent a 6 month trying to make pre-exercise stretching a habit and only achieved half-a-dozen strains from trying to stretch too much too soon. :-)

Cugel

Stretching before exercise was dicredited years ago. Your experience is further evidence.
Afterwards could be a different matter.

I think we may be at cross purposes I wasn’t referring to warming up, but more of a physio type exercise to strengthen the lower back, I didn’t specify any particular exercise as I don’t know Neil and his particular problem.


In weight training there are many good and many poor techniques. Anyone who's been to a gym will have witnessed 8 out of 10 hoisters doing it badly. The classic is too much weight heaved about ballistically in any old fashion and as fast as possible in order to use momentum to seem to achieve the exercise involved.

One (of many) good techniques is to perform the exercise quite slowly and always under control. Another is to keep the muscles and sinews tensed through the whole lift & lower cycle (no rest with joints locked out half-way through). Another is to use the full range of muscle & sinew movement when doing many exercises. Perhaps the last is what you're referring too by "stretching"? After all, one can weight-train using only one's own body-weight and do so with all the above techniques. E.g. the one-legged squat familiar to all would-be racing cyclists.

Some full-range exercises are to be done very carefully, as loss of control at the extreme end of the movement can cause a rip! The one-legged squat is a bit like that. Good to get a bum cheek down on the deck (or nearly) but not if it's sproinged the knee or wrenched the hip awry.

Cugel

pwa
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby pwa » 3 Feb 2019, 11:58am

ndwgolf wrote:Monday I did a 92 kilometers ride with 1800 feet of climes. I had a sore lower back from 40 to 60 kilometers (where Mose of the hills are) after the hills I was okay...... tired but okay but with sore knees as well
Wednesday I went for a bike fitting and they made a few adjustments to my Road bike to get my angles correct
Today I did the same ride, back was killing me again from 40 to 60 kilometers, but today my knees were fine........ we also did the ride slower today by 1kph
What’s with the lower back pain on hills?.
I’m 61 years young
6’3”
110 kilos
Bike Trek Madone SLR7

Neil


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my stupid phone.

If the knee problem has been corrected I would start by assuming that the saddle is now in the right position. So, if that assumption is correct, any remaining problems affecting the lower back are due to the position of the bars. I eliminated lower back pain on climbs by bringing the bars closer to the saddle by using a shorter stem, and by raising the bars. You are probably too stretched out.

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Audax67
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby Audax67 » 3 Feb 2019, 1:52pm

I had sore bloody everything on the hills yesterday, but that was because I'd taken out my old bike without checking anything and I'd lent a bloke the SQR block that was on it then put the saddle back an inch too low. Colour me div.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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531colin
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Re: Sore Back on the hills...... why

Postby 531colin » 9 Mar 2019, 10:03am