Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Polisman
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Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Polisman » 31 Oct 2019, 8:29pm

I'm a regular red wine drinker. Probably 2-3 glasses a day, three days a week. I don't consider that at all excessive. But it has lowered my blood pressure over these past few years. I used to have quite high BP, normally 170/105 or thereabouts. Doctors prescribed me drug relief from high BP and a course of statins but I refused it and embarked on a journey of cutting out salt altogether, a better diet, more cycling and red wine drinking.

My BP is now a very normal 120/78. And I feel the benefits of it. Improved sleep pattern, less stress and no reliance on any pharmaceuticals whatsoever. What's your experience?

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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby PH » 31 Oct 2019, 8:54pm

Polisman wrote: I refused it and embarked on a journey of cutting out salt altogether, a better diet, more cycling and red wine drinking.

Glad you enjoy a glass, but if you'd done the salt, diet and cycling without it would you not expect the same result? The stories I've seen about the benefits of red wine are mixed and those that advocate it seem to be based on tiny quantities, a couple of sips rather than glasses.

Polisman
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Polisman » 1 Nov 2019, 8:38am

PH wrote:
Polisman wrote: I refused it and embarked on a journey of cutting out salt altogether, a better diet, more cycling and red wine drinking.

Glad you enjoy a glass, but if you'd done the salt, diet and cycling without it would you not expect the same result? The stories I've seen about the benefits of red wine are mixed and those that advocate it seem to be based on tiny quantities, a couple of sips rather than glasses.


Most of the research I've read seems to point to the ability of the phenols in red wine to bind to LDL cholesterol (the worst kind) and take it out through the liver with great efficiency. The French drink gallons of it, and have the lowest rate of cardiovascular disease in Europe. And this on top of having the biggest consumption of red meat, cheese and saturated fats in their diet. That seems pretty conclusive to me. Medical professionals recommend 1-2 glasses per day, and an upper limit of 3.

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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby PH » 1 Nov 2019, 9:15am

Polisman wrote:Most of the research I've read

Maybe you need to read a more varied diet. For every report you can find promoting it, I can find at least one dismissing. When they tried to isolate and experiment with the element in red wine (from the grape skin and also found in other fruit) believed to be beneficial, nothing came of it. The French paradox is well known, it has several plausible explanations, and is likely to be a combination of them. But why restrict your comparisons to Europe? Japan has a lower rate of heart disease than France, yet tend to drink more beer and spirits.
As I said, enjoy your wine, but the promotion of it as beneficial isn't backed by the evidence. Your initial post doesn't provide any, if I did X,Y, and stood on one leg for ten minuets a day and the effect was Z, I wouldn't attribute it to the leg standing.

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Cugel
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Cugel » 2 Nov 2019, 8:51am

The difficulties of knowing which factor affects what body aspect, eh? As with all highly complex "systems" it's impossible to separate out any simple cause & effect relationships. They are, as another poster mentions elsewhere, "unfathomable". Just ask Maxwell's daemon.

There are "syndromes" that can be identified as tending to have broad effects, all other things being equal (although all other things rarely are). Certain lifestyles tend, on the whole, to produce certain kinds of life experiences. Eat a nutritious diet, minimising or eliminating the junk-fud (especially that full of toxins, sugar, salt etc.) and you stand a greater chance of avoiding certain life conditions such as diabetes and various heart thingies. Do regular exercise of various kinds, including periods to your limit, and you'll tend to stimulate your body to be at it's healthy best rather than moribund.

But to discover a simple relationship such as N glasses of red wine = good for heart .... impossible really. Well, unless its eating dark chocolate every day. This obviously improves every aspect of life. I should know! :-)

Cugel

ANTONISH
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby ANTONISH » 2 Nov 2019, 9:35am

Cugel wrote:The difficulties of knowing which factor affects what body aspect, eh? As with all highly complex "systems" it's impossible to separate out any simple cause & effect relationships. They are, as another poster mentions elsewhere, "unfathomable". Just ask Maxwell's daemon.

There are "syndromes" that can be identified as tending to have broad effects, all other things being equal (although all other things rarely are). Certain lifestyles tend, on the whole, to produce certain kinds of life experiences. Eat a nutritious diet, minimising or eliminating the junk-fud (especially that full of toxins, sugar, salt etc.) and you stand a greater chance of avoiding certain life conditions such as diabetes and various heart thingies. Do regular exercise of various kinds, including periods to your limit, and you'll tend to stimulate your body to be at it's healthy best rather than moribund.

But to discover a simple relationship such as N glasses of red wine = good for heart .... impossible really. Well, unless its eating dark chocolate every day. This obviously improves every aspect of life. I should know! :-)

Cugel


I consume about the same amount of red wine as the OP (I think the "rest days" are important.).
I'm with Cugel on the black chocolate.
I agree with Marie Lloyd " a little of what you fancy does you good"

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Mick F
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Mick F » 3 Nov 2019, 8:46am

Polisman wrote:..........cutting out salt altogether .........
What were you eating in the past that you now don't eat?

I ask, because we rarely have take-aways, or eat crisps and snacks, but we do use some salt in cooking. Mrs Mick F likes her Marmite, and I like a little salt on eggs.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Paulatic
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Paulatic » 3 Nov 2019, 8:55am

Mick F wrote:
Polisman wrote:..........cutting out salt altogether .........
What were you eating in the past that you now don't eat?

I ask, because we rarely have take-aways, or eat crisps and snacks, but we do use some salt in cooking. Mrs Mick F likes her Marmite, and I like a little salt on eggs.


We stopped using salt in cooking and on the plate 30+ years ago. However there is one thing I rarely eat without breaking the rule and that’s chicken. I substituted salt on my eggs with pepper.
The other use I can’t avoid is in making bread. I make 4 or 5 loaves a week with 5 gms in each loaf. I assume there’s salt in bought bread too.
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axel_knutt
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby axel_knutt » 3 Nov 2019, 5:00pm

Paulatic wrote:I assume there’s salt in bought bread too.

Bread alone accounts for 42% of the salt in my diet, even with the lowest salt loaf available in town.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Cyril Haearn » 3 Nov 2019, 5:22pm

axel_knutt wrote:
Paulatic wrote:I assume there’s salt in bought bread too.

Bread alone accounts for 42% of the salt in my diet, even with the lowest salt loaf available in town.

Care to post some figures, where does the 58% come from? Do you know how much salt is in the bread?
I add salt to porridge in summer occasionally, do not use it anywhere else, but lots of foods contain salt, I love that salty white cheese :?
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NUKe
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby NUKe » 3 Nov 2019, 7:54pm

Polisman wrote:I'm a regular red wine drinker. Probably 2-3 glasses a day, three days a week. I don't consider that at all excessive.

Depends on the size of your glass. Most wine glasses thes days will take a third of a bottle. It is much more likely that the salt reduction and exercise are what has contributed to your reduction in blood pressure. If you enjoy a glass of wine fair enough, but don’t pretend that excessive drinking is what is helping. This is what is causing the problem drinking in over 50s they 1 don’t really understand how much they are drinking home measures and 2 use half baked, badly reported research that papers like the Daily Fail, and express love to report, to justify it.
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Debs
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Debs » 3 Nov 2019, 9:35pm

Just the one glass of wine is enough for me :D

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softlips
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby softlips » 4 Nov 2019, 9:04am

NUKe wrote:
Polisman wrote:I'm a regular red wine drinker. Probably 2-3 glasses a day, three days a week. I don't consider that at all excessive.

Depends on the size of your glass. Most wine glasses thes days will take a third of a bottle. It is much more likely that the salt reduction and exercise are what has contributed to your reduction in blood pressure. If you enjoy a glass of wine fair enough, but don’t pretend that excessive drinking is what is helping. This is what is causing the problem drinking in over 50s they 1 don’t really understand how much they are drinking home measures and 2 use half baked, badly reported research that papers like the Daily Fail, and express love to report, to justify it.


This

Polisman
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Polisman » 4 Nov 2019, 9:00pm

I use 125ml measures, so roughly a third of a bottle a day. It's within government guidelines (like I could care), the benefits of moderate drinking are well proven. I drink maybe 3 or four times a week. I've observed a noticeable decrease in my overall stress, and a measurable decrease in blood pressure. It's hard to argue with the BP monitor. Before I started this regime I had a BP of 155/85, and regularl bouts of nausea and the shakes, which my doctor was very agitated about. He was attempting to push all sorts of medication my way.

I wasn't worried. Regular exercise, cutting out salt altogether, and moderate drinking of red wine have brought my BP back to normal (121/80) and I'm very glad I'm not on 10 pills a day, in my opinion Statins, and the like are a scam. I haven't taken any medication in 10 years. These pills do more harm than good. I no longer eat processed food at all, and cook almost every day. I have never felt better in my life. I'm not saying red wine drinking is a cure all, but its certainly a valid component of my current good health regime.

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Morzedec
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Re: Red wine and effects on health /blood pressure

Postby Morzedec » 4 Nov 2019, 9:08pm

Our local red, straight from my neighbouring farmer: 5 litres for 4 Euros, if you take your own bucket.

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