Audax and sleep deprivation.

[ANTONISH]

I've read about a recent Swedish report about an increase in an Altzheimer bio marker (tau)? in a group of men deprived of a night's sleep.
It occurs to me that during longer Audax rides ( 400k + ) I would miss a night's sleep.
I remember a desultory conversation in a "greasy thumb" during a night stop on a 400k as to whether we were doing ourselves any harm.
I decided it was possibly harmful and it was my last 400k.
Any thoughts from audaxers?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I have done addaxes some twenty or so years ago, 200k max.
I have done nearer 500k solo with a plastic bag
Several 400k solo with no sleep at all.
Two years ago I catnapped for twenty minutes in a bus shelter during a 24hr solo cycle, that was all my sleep in 38 hrs.

Probably will affect you eventually, but I suffered insomnia for years in my youth, its second nature to me.

[PH]

I've read about a recent Swedish report about an increase in an Altzheimer bio marker (tau)? in a group of men deprived of a night's sleep.

Any chance of a link to the report? Otherwise we're commenting on partial information. I'd particularly like to know if the cause was frequent sleep deprivation or occasional, also if it was no sleep. or not enough.
I'm not a particularly fast Audaxer, to put it mildly, yet usually get round a 400 in about 22 hours, if I've slept near the start and again near the finish, say an hour either side, that's about six hours longer awake than a normal day, I can't see how doing that occasionally is going to be too harmful. I don't do anything over 400, I do get more sleepy than I like, maybe if I was a little faster and could get a decent sleep in the middle I'd be OK. I've tried the napping thing and it doesn't work for me, though I know it works for others, which is another reason to be a little sceptical of any report (Particularly before I've read it)
Also - what's the standard? Anyone who's had kids will know what a sleepless night is, lost sleep due to cycling is minor by comparison.
I have plenty of reasons to hope the report is wrong, I used to regularly miss one nights sleep a week due to work pattern, probably not that many hours as I'd have slept well before and again after, but it was still only six nights sleep a week.

[ANTONISH]

Sorry I don't know how to give a link.
The report was on MSN yahoo news.
The group was male, average age 22yrs, increase in tau? 17%
I don't think there was a long term effect.
I can't see anyone organising a long term trial- ( do you want to try long term sleep deprivation to see if you develop Altzheimer's ? - not many takers I think)
Some audax riders do serious amounts of distance and must deprive themselves of sleep to do so - I know people who experienced mirages during PBP - usually the slower people - one acquaintance reckoned he had 3hours sleep and just made the cut off.
I was curious to know if there has been any research done on this - TBH I haven't noticed any audax riders with short term memory issues.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Mirages and hallucinations.
I think it's a well-known fact that this comes about through lack of nutrition?

[mattheus]

Hi,
Mirages and hallucinations.
I think it's a well-known fact that this comes about through lack of nutrition?

Really? Happy to be educated, but I've never heard of this - in 12 years of night-riding + audaxing.

[whoof]

Hi,
Mirages and hallucinations.
I think it's a well-known fact that this comes about through lack of nutrition?

Really? Happy to be educated, but I've never heard of this - in 12 years of night-riding + audaxing.

Mirages are a natural phenomena when heat changes the density and therefore the refractive index of the air close to the ground which bends the light.
Hallucinations and mostly the result of mental illness or consumption of hallucinogenic drugs.

[ChrisButch]

I've always regretted not being able to do any of the longer Audax distances, but I knew I couldn't cope with the sleep deprivation. I suspect that those who clearly can cope with it don't realise how unusual this is, but that it's as much an essential requirement in doing these distances as any specifically cycling abilities. However fit I was, and however many training miles I'd put in, there's no way I could ever have tackled PBP or even a 600.

[TrevA]

I remember reading about a guy doing the RAAM, he was so sleep deprived that he started hallucinating. He saw a railway track and went and sat by it, waiting for a train to take him to see God.

[Paulatic]

Sorry I don't know how to give a link.
T.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/08/health/o ... index.html

Hope this fixes it for you.

[Marcus Aurelius]

My entire life is based around what would normally be described as sleep deprivation. It’s very unusual for me to get more than 3 or 4 hours of what is normally termed ‘sleep’ in any 24 hr period. It’s been that way for over 25 years. The ‘normalisation’ of this scenario is how I get the time / distances and mileages I can, in a year. Is it normal? No, is it normal for me? Yes. Is it healthy? We’ll see.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
It took me about 10 lazy years to get to sleeping 7 hrs a night.
When I was marathon training I only slept through the night on Saturday.
The more exercise I did the worse it became I used to go on long walks to the beach overnight, I ran my new motorcycles in overnight too.
I had been going to bed about midnight for several years maybe one o'clock to get up in the morning out on the bike training, common for me to be awake before the alarm at 5.
Three years ago I suffered shingles, since then I am back to 3.5 hrs a night max.
But it helps if you want to cycle for 24 hrs or more.
But its mandatory that you get some shuteye even if its twenty minutes eyes closed and still.
If not then even those who profess not to need sleep start to falter after about 19-21 hrs.
If I don't have a catnap at least once in the day I will probably fall asleep on the bike and stay on too
My mind just goes completely blank for several seconds, early signs are not being able to cycle in a straight line and stay eventually in one lane, it starts with a strip 12 inches wide and now at that point its off the bike and lay down.
But its too late I go for two hours more and have to stop.
So important just like bonking etc, to refresh before it comes on.

My best advice is to lie down with your eyes closed for 20 minutes or more anytime after 12 hrs on the trot if you intend to go for 24 on the bike.
Best then after the first stop is to stop every three hours to be safe and repeat the catnap.
I have never and don't intend to take any stimulant like caffeine.

[mattheus]

I've always regretted not being able to do any of the longer Audax distances, but I knew I couldn't cope with the sleep deprivation. I suspect that those who clearly can cope with it don't realise how unusual this is, but that it's as much an essential requirement in doing these distances as any specifically cycling abilities. However fit I was, and however many training miles I'd put in, there's no way I could ever have tackled PBP or even a 600.

On most 600s I get about 4h sleep. I think my min was 1 hour, and that was undesirable. On the 1000k+ rides I've only ridden straight thru a night where the event starts quite late in the day.

It is true that a small number of riders get thru 600s despite being too slow to get any sleep; some seem to enjoy it, others ... well, don't!

[I'm at the needs-most-sleep end of the spectrum.]

[ANTONISH]

<SNIP>
Yes - I should have said hallucinations not mirages, but they are experienced by some audaxers on long distance (600+) events.
I don't think people who regularly undertake these events are necessarily mentally ill.

[PH]

<SNIP>
Yes - I should have said hallucinations not mirages, but they are experienced by some audaxers on long distance (600+) events.
I don't think people who regularly undertake these events are necessarily mentally ill.

Indeed, hallucinations when sleepy are well documented, they even have a specific name, though it escapes me and I haven't the will to look it up.