Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Gearoidmuar
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Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 22 Jan 2020, 2:37pm

I posted on torn meniscus pain recently and how bigger gears helped.
I next went totally to flat pedals. Better still, but still some pain and pain in bed.
Decided to get a pair of Catalyst pedals. These are long, putting your foot position back to mid sole over axle. Pain just disappeared.
Now abroad, cycling on normal BMX pedals with foot in same position. Really hard cycling. Zero pain. Night or day. It's remarkable. Walking no prob. Had been restricted in distance I could walk.
You can feel the difference of this foot position. It takes the pressure off the front of the knee. It doesn't slow you down. Scientists recently showed that.
Now, the question is, should anyone be cycling with standard foot position, and does the restriction of cleats do longterm damage?
One problem with Catalyst pedal (by Cycling Innovations) is toe overlap which I have with one bike. More comfortable for midsole position than BMX type pedals but I've found them (BMX) OK.
I'll never go back to SPD unless they produce a midsole cleat, and even then..

ANTONISH
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby ANTONISH » 24 Jan 2020, 9:24am

A few years back there was a German woman professional who changed to a mid foot pedal position.
She found it more effective - to my eye it looked horrible and the toe overlap may have been a problem.
If it works for you why not?

Gearoidmuar
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 28 Jan 2020, 9:02am

I can vouch for at least the same power and how it's easier to push a bigger gear. The reason I posted this is that there is someone reading this who has a problem like I had cycling and walking and that this may be his/her solution.

Gearoidmuar
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 19 Feb 2020, 7:42am

My knee remains very well. 5m walk yesterday. Not a peep out of it.
I met an old orthopoedic surgeon friend of mine last night. I told him about what I'd found changing my foot position. This chap is really bright. He said straight out "That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest."

colin54
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby colin54 » 2 Mar 2020, 9:00pm

MKS Lamda( Rivendell Grip Kings) are also a 'long' style pedal.
https://www.mkspedal.com/?q=en/product/node/79
Some user reviews on Crazy Guy site

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews ... 191&page=1
I've been very happy with the cheap Wellgo DMR V8 copies and Shimano Saint flat pedals.

Cowsham
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 3 Mar 2020, 11:02am

I think it's the push pull of the knee joint that does the damage to me when using toe straps many many years ago -- went to flat pedals - no problems -- then recently tried the new fangled cleats -- a pain I'd almost forgotten about after 30 something years came back on same knee !

I push hard -- have to cycle with the younger riders since all the guys my age are Phucked or their knees are Phucked.

recumbentpanda
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby recumbentpanda » 3 Mar 2020, 3:08pm

Many of us recumbenteers use a mid foot cleat or pedal position. ‘Bents can put a lot of strain on the knees if not set up right, and a mid position seems to resolve the issues for many.

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NUKe
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby NUKe » 3 Mar 2020, 3:23pm

recumbentpanda wrote:Many of us recumbenteers use a mid foot cleat or pedal position. ‘Bents can put a lot of strain on the knees if not set up right, and a mid position seems to resolve the issues for many.

can you explain further ? I always try and align with the ball of my foot or slightly behind for upright or recumbent
NUKe
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Gearoidmuar
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 3 Mar 2020, 6:52pm

Mid position is when the hollow of the sole of your foot is over the pedal axle. Slightly more than half way along the length of your foot, though the precise distance doesn't seem to matter much, just that it well behind the "normal" ball of your foot position. You'll feel a loss of pressure on the front of your knee. It really is great if you've had a knee problem.
I've come to the conclusion that cleats produce a form of repetitive strain injury, no matter how well set up. I used them for more than 30y. No mas.

Gearoidmuar
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 3 Mar 2020, 6:53pm

Interesting about the recumbent cyclists!

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 3 Mar 2020, 7:55pm

A lot of people miss out 80 percent of the important stuff when they try and get their bike fit right, without expert help. Pedal / cleats set up, is just one bit, and even then most people neglect to adjust for wedge angle, between cleat and pedal.

https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/

This is a nice article that explains it, with pretty pictures and everything.

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby thatsnotmyname » 3 Mar 2020, 8:43pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:A lot of people miss out 80 percent of the important stuff when they try and get their bike fit right, without expert help. Pedal / cleats set up, is just one bit, and even then most people neglect to adjust for wedge angle, between cleat and pedal.

https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/

This is a nice article that explains it, with pretty pictures and everything.


"Cleat wedges, shims and spacers are essential" - says a company that makes cleat wedges, shims and spacers... :roll:

recumbentpanda
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby recumbentpanda » 3 Mar 2020, 10:44pm

Gearoidmuar has it right re the pedal position. Some recumbent riders actually modify shoes to shift cleats to or near the mid-foot. I personally use flat pedals and shoes with very thin grippy soles, and I find I move my foot position around a fair bit depending on road conditions. Mid foot seems to be the default for me especially over distance.

I think the bent experience is perhaps useful to upright cyclists because it is a (slightly) extreme case where bike fit issues show up rather quickly at the knee joint. This may help understand how the issues can develop on the upright format, but take longer to show up? Maybe.

Cowsham
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 4 Mar 2020, 12:29am

I think knee too straight when foot at the bottom of stroke might be one of my problems ie saddle too high. Over extension is what I'm trying to say. Lowered the saddle half way home pain is instantly a lot less -- will try this a few days then try the cleats again.
Last edited by Cowsham on 4 Mar 2020, 5:33pm, edited 1 time in total.

yelfordrover
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Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby yelfordrover » 4 Mar 2020, 11:06am

I was going to start a new topic called "arthritic knee and amount of cleat float" and then came across this one.

I've been road riding for 30 years (now 68 yo) and always used clipless. Had quite a few bike fits & cleat position was generally unaltered; Shimano SPD-SL yellow 6' float cleats with my toes pointing very slightly inwards (about 3').

A year ago I had sudden right knee cap pain, saw a specialist who diagnosed arthritis but said to carry on riding & back off if it hurt too much. He was also a cyclist & suggested using Speedplay pedals to increase the float. Initially I changed to 150mm cranks & increased saddle set-back from 70-100mm & this seemed to help a lot but still had painful twinges. Rather than buying Speedplays I modified my SPD-SL pedals which enabled an increase in rotational float to about 20'.

To my surprise, when using the modified pedals both feet point inwards by a whopping 15' (estimated). It doesn't feel odd but I'm wondering if such a radical change may have negative effects; I've only had 200 miles on them so far.

Any thoughts?