Unable to honk

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Trigger
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Unable to honk

Postby Trigger » 9 May 2020, 10:31am

This may just be the obvious answer of I'm not fit enough yet, but I don't recall this problem at my first go around with cycling.

I am a slower cadence sort of rider as it just feels more comfortable to me, as such over the short inclines and undulating/rolling hills I've always been one for just getting out of the saddle and punching over it instead of changing down and twiddling.

Just recently I started cycling again after a 6 year break and whilst my fitness isn't terrible the first time I tried getting out of the saddle I almost collapsed in a heap as my calves instantly went to jelly, is this a sign something is wrong with the bike set up or that I'm just not fit enough/strong enough yet?

I haven't been totally inactive during my break, I have a physical job and ironically I am lighter in weight now than I ever was whilst cycling.

Jdsk
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Jdsk » 9 May 2020, 11:07am

Trigger wrote:... is this a sign something is wrong with the bike set up or that I'm just not fit enough/strong enough yet?

I'd vote for the latter. including loss of mass in the required muscles.

But you're back in the saddle, keep going. : - )

Jonathan

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Paulatic
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Paulatic » 9 May 2020, 11:08am

I’ve said quite recently I didn’t realise some people cant honk until riding with someone who can’t

If you can walk if you can run then why you can’t replicate that standing on two pedals must IMO boils down to position on the bike and or a lack of confidence.
Can you ride no hands? I ask because I think that’s another confidence issue.
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Trigger
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Trigger » 9 May 2020, 11:22am

Paulatic wrote:I’ve said quite recently I didn’t realise some people cant honk until riding with someone who can’t

If you can walk if you can run then why you can’t replicate that standing on two pedals must IMO boils down to position on the bike and or a lack of confidence.
Can you ride no hands? I ask because I think that’s another confidence issue.


It's not a confidence thing, I've tried it loads when I get to an incline I would just punch over previously, it's just that there is a sudden lack of power/jelly feeling in my calves.

I can't ride non handed you're correct, and that is a confidence issue, see my other 'twitchy steering' thread in bike bits. But then I've never been able to ride non handed, I've just seen it as a showing off thing and not much use for anything so haven't bothered to try and perfect it.

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Re: Unable to honk

Postby jimlews » 9 May 2020, 12:27pm

I have never seen much point of either of those.

I don't think "honking" has any benefit for the leisure/recreational cyclist and precious little for the racer. It could destabilize the bike and put extraordinary stresses through the wheels that may result in broken spokes/buckled rims etc. especially on 'factory built' wheels.
From an aesthetic point of view, I find the whole business undignified and anyway, being by nature lazy, I prefer to take my exercise sitting down.
A far better solution is to equip the bike with an adequate range of gears, suitable for the anticipated terrain.

I can just about see the point of cycling no hands. To ease the back on a long ride, or achieve a better view over the hedge, for example. But as an end in itself, it just seems to me to be showing off and rather juvenile. A bit like 'popping a wheelie' (Showing my age,now).
It could also be construed as 'cycling without due care'.

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Paulatic
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Paulatic » 9 May 2020, 1:23pm

If it’s a 'calves' related issue does it feel the same as standing on your tiptoes? Wondering if you ride cleated are they too far forward?

Riding no hands isn’t really showing off as I rarely do it when it company. I wouldn’t do it in traffic. But as an alternative position on a long ride it can feel quite good. Also good for the times you set off without gloves not realising how cold it was going to be. :)
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby mattsccm » 9 May 2020, 1:53pm

On the other hand Jim it allows you to power up a hill without loosing speed or tackle a hill without dropping a gear or riding a hill thatsxrather steep. Of course leisure cycling to me is coming back knackered or there was minimal point in being out. Crusing around with minimal effort is not why i cycle.

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Trigger
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Trigger » 9 May 2020, 2:12pm

mattsccm wrote:On the other hand Jim it allows you to power up a hill without loosing speed or tackle a hill without dropping a gear or riding a hill thatsxrather steep. Of course leisure cycling to me is coming back knackered or there was minimal point in being out. Crusing around with minimal effort is not why i cycle.


Same for me and that is exactly how I use honking, I'm a low cadence rider and would rather just stand up and punch over an incline (within reason, I'm not talking the Alps) without dropping the gears and twiddling.

Paulatic wrote:If it’s a 'calves' related issue does it feel the same as standing on your tiptoes? Wondering if you ride cleated are they too far forward?


You nailed it! to my massive embarrassment I hadn't ridden this bike for 6 years and just jumped on it with a different pair of shoes than what I usually use, I dug out my old MTB shoes that I had done a lot of miles on previously and noticed the cleats were much further back.

So I threw the SPDs on and have just been out for a spin with the old MTB shoes on and it was a revelation, didn't even feel like the same bike, I think I haven't been engaging my quads at all these past two weeks which would explain why I almost collapsed with calf cramp at the end of a ride the other day. Today's ride was an absolute breeze and 4 minutes quicker and higher average speed, which over a short distance of 16 miles is quite the change, I'm made up to be honest.

Strange thing was I didn't feel this over reliance on my calves actually on the bike, obviously at the end of a ride but during it not so much, just the reduced power output, and obviously the jelly legs when trying to honk which I had just put down to a lack of bike fitness.

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Re: Unable to honk

Postby jimlews » 9 May 2020, 2:20pm

mattsccm wrote:On the other hand Jim it allows you to power up a hill without loosing speed or tackle a hill without dropping a gear or riding a hill thatsxrather steep. Of course leisure cycling to me is coming back knackered or there was minimal point in being out. Crusing around with minimal effort is not why i cycle.


We obviously cycle for different reasons. Different strokes etc.

My primary motivation is to see the countryside in all it's bucolic languor. I am a non competitive cyclist and generally ride alone for the quiet contemplation of the landscape. Dropping down a gear holds no terrors for me; I don't feel that my masculinity has been compromised by so doing. Indeed, I feel that to not avail myself of the lowest gear ratio available is just daft. The machismo of the racing ethos has a lot to answer for.

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Trigger
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby Trigger » 9 May 2020, 3:18pm

jimlews wrote:
mattsccm wrote:On the other hand Jim it allows you to power up a hill without loosing speed or tackle a hill without dropping a gear or riding a hill thatsxrather steep. Of course leisure cycling to me is coming back knackered or there was minimal point in being out. Crusing around with minimal effort is not why i cycle.


We obviously cycle for different reasons. Different strokes etc.

My primary motivation is to see the countryside in all it's bucolic languor. I am a non competitive cyclist and generally ride alone for the quiet contemplation of the landscape. Dropping down a gear holds no terrors for me; I don't feel that my masculinity has been compromised by so doing. Indeed, I feel that to not avail myself of the lowest gear ratio available is just daft. The machismo of the racing ethos has a lot to answer for.


It's none of that for me Jim just that it feels more comfortable, I hate sat twiddling a low gear, just personal preference no machismo involved.

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Re: Unable to honk

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 May 2020, 3:50pm

Hi,

http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Arti ... onking.htm
I think there can be individuals styles which work, and it depends on cadence.
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby ANTONISH » 9 May 2020, 5:33pm

I take it you are referring to climbing "en puissance" as opposed to getting out of the saddle as a last resort when you've run out of gears (actually I'd consider that to be " honking".)
I used to find the former useful to maintain momentum up a short steep climb or on the hairpin of a longer climb.
I still attempt it but nowadays I run out of steam before the top and I'm forced into the saddle and into a lower gear (otherwise I'd have to honk :( ).
I can't see it causing any damage to equipment either way.

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Re: Unable to honk

Postby ANTONISH » 9 May 2020, 5:36pm

I take it you are referring to climbing "en puissance" as opposed to getting out of the saddle as a last resort when you've run out of gears (actually I'd consider that to be " honking".)
I used to find the former useful to maintain momentum up a short steep climb or on the hairpin of a longer climb.
I still attempt it but nowadays I run out of steam before the top and I'm forced into the saddle and into a lower gear (otherwise I'd have to honk :( ).
I can't see it causing any damage to equipment either way.
Actually one drawback is when climbing on a wet road where you may lose traction.

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Re: Unable to honk

Postby foxyrider » 9 May 2020, 8:27pm

jimlews wrote:
mattsccm wrote:On the other hand Jim it allows you to power up a hill without loosing speed or tackle a hill without dropping a gear or riding a hill thatsxrather steep. Of course leisure cycling to me is coming back knackered or there was minimal point in being out. Crusing around with minimal effort is not why i cycle.


We obviously cycle for different reasons. Different strokes etc.

My primary motivation is to see the countryside in all it's bucolic languor. I am a non competitive cyclist and generally ride alone for the quiet contemplation of the landscape. Dropping down a gear holds no terrors for me; I don't feel that my masculinity has been compromised by so doing. Indeed, I feel that to not avail myself of the lowest gear ratio available is just daft. The machismo of the racing ethos has a lot to answer for.


You don't have to crawl about at walking pace to enjoy the countryside and i doubt Trigger or Mattscm have any fear of changing down gears, i certainly don't and i Honk!

FWIW i can do some other trick cycling, yes, no hands, i can do the occasional bunny hop, track stand sometimes (its easier on fixed of course), i've been known to 'catch some air' but alas, the one thing i've never mastered is the wheelie, i know the theory but it just doesn't work for me. All this and i still enjoy the countryside! :D
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Re: Unable to honk

Postby foxyrider » 9 May 2020, 8:31pm

ANTONISH wrote:Actually one drawback is when climbing on a wet road where you may lose traction.


Indeed, on Thursday i had that happen on a slope covered in fresh cow droppings! :lol: when i say covered, kerb to kerb and several coatings thick which is a shame given its on NCN4!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!