Unable to honk

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49410
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Mick F » 9 May 2020, 9:20pm

Paulatic wrote:Can you ride no hands? I ask because I think that’s another confidence issue.
Sorry, nothing about confidence, it's all to do with geometry.

I can ride "no hands" easily, but it depends on the bike.
Mercian is difficult, Moulton almost impossible, Barbarella (Mrs Mick F's bike) is easy.
Daughter2's bike - Marjorie Dawes is easy peasy.
My old Hercules I could ride "no hands" all day, and even start and stop "no hands".

Best trial, is to ride rollers.
Have you ever ridden on rollers?
It takes some practice, but some bikes are easy, and some are difficult.
Eddy Merckx has been seen riding "no hands" on rollers. I can do that, but not on Mercian, but I can just about do it on Barbarella.

Geometry ........ not confidence.
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 5153
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Paulatic » 9 May 2020, 9:42pm

Mick F wrote:
Geometry ........ not confidence.


and if you can’t ride a bike with the right geometry no hands then I’ve observed it’s a confidence thing. We learnt as children some have never been that lucky.
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/

jimlews
Posts: 485
Joined: 11 Jun 2015, 8:36pm
Location: Not the end of the World. But you can see it from here.

Re: Unable to honk

Postby jimlews » 9 May 2020, 10:41pm

foxyrider wrote:
You don't have to crawl about at walking pace to enjoy the countryside and i doubt Trigger or Mattscm have any fear of changing down gears, i certainly don't and i Honk!

FWIW i can do some other trick cycling, yes, no hands, i can do the occasional bunny hop, track stand sometimes (its easier on fixed of course), i've been known to 'catch some air' but alas, the one thing i've never mastered is the wheelie, i know the theory but it just doesn't work for me. All this and i still enjoy the countryside! :D


"Crawl about at walking pace.." For the most part I don't. But sometimes there is no option; grovelling up Bwlch y Groes or the Devils Staircase for instance.

Re: Cycle stunts. I've done one or two in my time, some inadvertent.* Some not.

*edited to remove "humblebrag"

Manc33
Posts: 1659
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Manc33 » 10 May 2020, 12:01am

Keep at it. Knees up!
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49410
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Mick F » 10 May 2020, 9:15am

Paulatic wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Geometry ........ not confidence.


and if you can’t ride a bike with the right geometry no hands then I’ve observed it’s a confidence thing. We learnt as children some have never been that lucky.
Yes, you're right.

One thing I learnt as a teenager, was to ride backwards. That is, sitting on the handlebars and pedalling. The hard part to learn is the counter-steering ........... if the bike leans to the left, it feels to the right to you as you're facing backwards, so you fall off! :lol:
Get the hang of it, and it's easy ........ you just need to turn your head to see where you're going. I learnt on the local playing fields as the grass was softer than tarmac.
I can still do it now, so it's just like riding a bike eh?
As for geometry, I can do it on Mercian, but it's very twitchy. Normal sit-up-and-beg bikes are easy peasy ....... once you learn how to do it.

Also, I learnt to walk on stilts as a ten year old. I can still do it now ...... if I had some. I keep meaning to make a pair for our grandson, as his mum (now in her mid 40s) can still walk on stilts, so she could teach him. Once you have a skill, it's there for life ....... like swimming or riding a bike.
Mick F. Cornwall

ThePinkOne
Posts: 223
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm

Re: Unable to honk

Postby ThePinkOne » 10 May 2020, 4:52pm

Paulatic wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Geometry ........ not confidence.


and if you can’t ride a bike with the right geometry no hands then I’ve observed it’s a confidence thing. We learnt as children some have never been that lucky.


Not necessarily.

If your proprioception response is not "normal" it can actually be difficult enough riding a bike normally never mind with no hands.

As an autistic person with varying senses (over-active hearing, underactive propioreception) riding a bike "normally" takes effort (and I also bump into things a lot and find it difficult to walk in a straight line... yet my fine motor control is excellent e.g. for fine embriodery).

TPO

hamster
Posts: 3519
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Unable to honk

Postby hamster » 11 May 2020, 10:56am

jimlews wrote:I don't think "honking" has any benefit for the leisure/recreational cyclist and precious little for the racer. It could destabilize the bike and put extraordinary stresses through the wheels that may result in broken spokes/buckled rims etc. especially on 'factory built' wheels.
From an aesthetic point of view, I find the whole business undignified and anyway, being by nature lazy, I prefer to take my exercise sitting down.
A far better solution is to equip the bike with an adequate range of gears, suitable for the anticipated terrain.


If it's useless then professionals spend a suspicious amount of time out of the saddle.

It's very handy to rise from the saddle to kick the bike over small rises to maintain momentum or to accelerate rapidly (e.g. out of junctions). On long climbs it uses different muscle groups - allowing a kind of rest for the legs.
Novices indeed tend to push insanely high gears and honk when a simple change down would be more efficient.

User avatar
Shoogle
Posts: 117
Joined: 6 Feb 2008, 11:31pm

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Shoogle » 19 May 2020, 4:27pm

Although I've been cycling for thirty-eight years, I've never been one for "honking", until recently. Normally, on hills, I drop to the lower gears and stay seated. On Sunday I did a hilly twenty-six mile route with extensive honking and all was fine, honking up hills that I would have used bottom gear when seated, in fourth or fifth gear. But, the next morning, I had sore knees for the first time in my life. Coincidence, or related?

Jdsk
Posts: 1242
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Unable to honk

Postby Jdsk » 19 May 2020, 5:57pm

I'd think that it was probably related. But it's going to take a few more runs with and without to have any certainty...

Jonathan

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4989
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Unable to honk

Postby foxyrider » 19 May 2020, 6:28pm

one thing did occur to me the other day as i 'honked' up a short gradient, If you favour a handlebar position above the saddle height it can be difficult to almost impossible to actually honk properly. Part of honking is to actually move your centre of gravity to keep it over the BB but if you can't lean forward because of your bar position, in effect you are just standing up and taking your cog further from where you want it.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11896
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Unable to honk

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 20 May 2020, 3:09pm

Hi,
If your knees are a bit sore after a hilly ride out the saddle but not painful to move et cetera.
Probably good idea to include some of this in your rides, reasons for this is because as you get older everything starts getting weaker.
I just think that having more tools in the box because you better in old-age.

Handlebar position, one for ergonomics of the legs, two for as you said climbing hills, standing is nearby impossible if the handlebar position is too high and too far back, you waste energy bending your arms to keep your body forward.
Contrary to what most people seem to believe, I believe that lowering the handlebars Sorts out your back not raising them.
Raising the handlebars to an upright position means your lower back is having to work harder to keep position on the bike.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4989
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Unable to honk

Postby foxyrider » 20 May 2020, 9:04pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Contrary to what most people seem to believe, I believe that lowering the handlebars Sorts out your back not raising them.
Raising the handlebars to an upright position means your lower back is having to work harder to keep position on the bike.


I totally agree but just try convincing someone who 'wants to sit more upright' that that is the case. :roll: As soon as the saddle goes below bar height you start compressing the spine which might work for about 30 mins but will soon become increasingly uncomfortable.

An extreme case would be the chap i saw yesterday, straight bars with 3, yes 3 sets of assorted bar ends attached to each other to raise the bar position best bit of 12 inches away from the controls. No obvious reason that the young chap, (anyone younger than me qualifies but he was at a guess @ 30) couldn't ride without the scaffolding, perhaps he was trying to emulate the Chopper rider i saw the day before with Ape hangers so high he could barely reach them from the Harley's seat, little chance of any proper control at any speed. :(
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

ANTONISH
Posts: 1835
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Unable to honk

Postby ANTONISH » 21 May 2020, 9:14am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
If your knees are a bit sore after a hilly ride out the saddle but not painful to move et cetera.
Probably good idea to include some of this in your rides, reasons for this is because as you get older everything starts getting weaker.
I just think that having more tools in the box because you better in old-age.

Handlebar position, one for ergonomics of the legs, two for as you said climbing hills, standing is nearby impossible if the handlebar position is too high and too far back, you waste energy bending your arms to keep your body forward.
Contrary to what most people seem to believe, I believe that lowering the handlebars Sorts out your back not raising them.
Raising the handlebars to an upright position means your lower back is having to work harder to keep position on the bike.


I'm inclined to agree with this - I've had pretty well the same set up for more than sixty years - bar tops are about two inches below saddle height.
I did experiment with a level bar set up on my touring bike a few years ago by reversing the ahead stem.
After a few days I decided it didn't suit me and reverted to my original position.

I have noticed that there seems to be a trend to have a higher bar height - I suspect it's received wisdom - I've even had a club mate tell me that my bars are too low. He had observed me pointing out potholes and assumed I had numb hands.

That said I have changed to shallow drop bars in recent years.

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11896
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Unable to honk

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 21 May 2020, 9:23am

Hi,
I too have resorted to Shallower drops than they were 40 years ago.
As modern ergo (randonneur) bars are easier and cheaper To get hold of.
Still have the original bars but I prefer wider nowadays.
I just think if I can still get my knees past my elbows I'm okay :lol:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4989
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Unable to honk

Postby foxyrider » 21 May 2020, 7:05pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I too have resorted to Shallower drops than they were 40 years ago.
As modern ergo (randonneur) bars are easier and cheaper To get hold of.
Still have the original bars but I prefer wider nowadays.
I just think if I can still get my knees past my elbows I'm okay :lol:


Depth of the bars is a bit of red herring in this conversation as you don't Honk from the drops!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!