artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Brucey
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artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Brucey » 8 Jun 2020, 9:21pm

For many years I have -on shorter, steadier rides, say up to about two and a half hours- drunk relatively little whilst on the bike, preferring to rehydrate properly when I've got home. This certainly isn't what I'd do when racing of course, or even riding hard come to it, but that is a whole different thing.

My default thirst quencher at home has long been (weak, about half or one third normal strength) 'Roses' lime cordial, which has sugar in it. However I have recently tried using a different lime cordials which contains artificial sweeteners instead. Some of this stuff is so sweet that it needs only be present in homeopathic quantities in order to taste quite sweet. However having drunk some of this stuff the taste lingers in the mouth for at least an hour.

Anyway I rode about ten days ago and did a 'normal' distance (about 30-odd miles) and I might have ridden a little bit harder than any of the previous seven or so rides I'd done in the previous ten days. I'd started on the latest lot of lime cordial the previous day, and of course drank more of it when I got home. I felt unusually fatigued by the ride and I didn't do much else that day. In fact I felt so rotten I didn't do much the day after either. The day after that I went for a steady ride and I felt dreadful; as weak as a kitten and -basically- aching all over, even in places I didn't know I could ache.

This feeling has taken about a week to dissipate; only today (when riding back from the supermarket) did I not feel it a struggle on a short climb.
Now I've been tired and achey from hard bike rides many times before. But this wasn't a hard bike ride and it certainly wasn't a 'normal' amount of acheyness. I guess there are lots of possibilities including

- something in the air (pollen?) that I'm allergic to
- the ride was harder than I thought
- the cumulative effect of the previous rides was more than I thought
- I've come down with some (mild, it had no other symptoms) virus
- I'd eaten something that disagreed with me.

So on the last point the only thing that was unusual for me was the lime cordial with the artificial sweeteners in it. I have not had any for the last week. So could it have been that? I looked up the side effects of some of these sweeteners and there is more than one report of fibromyalgia being associated with these sweeteners. Has anyone else had anything similar happen?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jdsk
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Jdsk » 8 Jun 2020, 9:28pm

It's unlikely to be an effect of the sweetener. But which one was it?

If you really want to know if it was I suggest using a double blind N of 1 trial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_of_1_trial

Brucey wrote:Some of this stuff is so sweet that it needs only be present in homeopathic quantities in order to taste quite sweet.

Not much needed, but normal chemistry applies! : - )

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 9 Jun 2020, 3:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 9 Jun 2020, 3:13pm

Despite what some people think artificial sweeteners are not actually bad for you. I very much doubt it was the cause of the problem. It's not impossible that you may be allergic to it, but it's not that common.

GLJoe
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby GLJoe » 9 Jun 2020, 3:52pm

Peter F wrote:Despite what some people think artificial sweeteners are not actually bad for you.


There's lots of evidence out there contradicting that statement!

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 9 Jun 2020, 4:26pm

GLJoe wrote:
Peter F wrote:Despite what some people think artificial sweeteners are not actually bad for you.


There's lots of evidence out there contradicting that statement!


There are a lot of hits if you google it, but I'd suggest not much of it is evidence. Artificial sweeteners is a subject that attracts an awful lot of pseudo science. You can similarly find a lot of "evidence" that vaccines cause autism and that 5G is dangerous...

The NHS has this to say:
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/a ... ners-safe/

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 9 Jun 2020, 5:02pm

Most sweeteners, natural or not are toxic in anything but small/moderate amounts. Good quality xylitol which is derived from birch bark is the best of the less harmfull ones such as erythritol both of which affect blood sugar levels minimally - Xylitol also protects the teeth better than toothpaste or most dentists.

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al_yrpal
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby al_yrpal » 9 Jun 2020, 5:10pm

If they were they wouldnt be on sale having been tested extensively. The US tried to keep Tate and Lyles sweetener sucralose out, they failed. That said I believe that some allowable food substitutes and foods might upset a small number of people, nuts and MSG are examples.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 9 Jun 2020, 8:11pm

al_yrpal wrote:If they were they wouldnt be on sale having been tested extensively. The US tried to keep Tate and Lyles sweetener sucralose out, they failed. That said I believe that some allowable food substitutes and foods might upset a small number of people, nuts and MSG are examples.

Al

This.
Artificial sweeteners have been extensively tested and at the levels found in food do no harm. Obesity caused by excess calorie intake however is an issue.

Jdsk
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Jdsk » 9 Jun 2020, 8:22pm

windmiller wrote:Most sweeteners, natural or not are toxic in anything but small/moderate amounts

What's the evidence for that for aspartame, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 9 Jun 2020, 10:22pm

Jdsk wrote:
windmiller wrote:Most sweeteners, natural or not are toxic in anything but small/moderate amounts

What's the evidence for that for aspartame, please?

Thanks

Jonathan


Perhaps the word toxic has become rather ambiguous, The word destructive is a better fit.

Jdsk
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Jdsk » 9 Jun 2020, 10:35pm

What's the evidence for anything above moderate doses of aspartame being destructive, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 9 Jun 2020, 10:55pm

Jdsk wrote:What's the evidence for anything above moderate doses of aspartame being destructive, please?

Thanks

Jonathan


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24436139/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25313461/
http://europepmc.org/article/PMC/387446

Tangled Metal
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jun 2020, 11:02pm

Isn't Xylitol in toothpastes anyway??

That NHS link, as far as I could be bothered to read I'll admit, kept mentioning it doesn't cause cancer. That's not the same as not causing harm.

AFAIK there's never been independent research of various commonly n used artificial sweeteners on people who suffer migraines. I know anecdotal tales of it triggering migraines isn't a high standard of evidence but unless you can show independent, higher quality research proving it doesn't contribute towards triggering migraines I'll continue with that assertion. Reason why I'm convinced that's true is because I can deliberately trigger a migraine by consuming things with aspartame and a couple of other artificial sweeteners.

I am serious in this because I've tried various food and drink with it. For example, when in Belgium I drank a drink that was sold as a lemon health tonic drink made with very few components and no sugar only aspartame. I got a migraine in 15 minutes of my first sip. I felt the attack coming on so drank only half of the 330ml drink after reading the contents. I was able to detect when rybena lowered it's sugar content and replaced it with artificial sweeteners when I drank it for the first time in years and got a migraine. I have a friend who's my age, a migraine sufferer and can trigger migraines at will by drinking or eating anything with the common artificial sweeteners.

I bet we're not alone. I often wonder if it's safe then why don't they carry out double blind studies with migraine sufferers who claim aspartame and others cause migraines. I would wager you'll find it pretty conclusive that it is a trigger for people with migraines that believe it's a trigger. Bet the migraineurs who weren't given aspartame or other similar sweetener don't get migrants but those with it do. If you test people claiming is a trigger anecdotally.

Now I challenge anyone who has said it's safe find the gold standard research proving what I have experienced isn't down to aspartame. I've yet to find it. I am not the sort for conspiracy theories but I believe artificial sweeteners will be found out to cause harm to some consumers. I believe it be will one day be controlled or prominently highlighted as an ingredient so people can avoid it or one of the other sweeteners.

I do not follow the idea that it causes less deaths than sugar, the vaping health benefits idea for smokers. If it causes harm then it's not a good substitute when simply removing or reducing all sweeteners whether sugar or artificial sweeteners is perhaps the better option. Perhaps humans need weaning off the sweet taste full stop.

Tangled Metal
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jun 2020, 11:12pm

BTW there's artificial sweeteners in certain migraine treatments. I've stopped taking my rizatriptan because it's a weird thing. My version is orodispersible on the tongue. Once I read that was how you absorb it the drug worked well. However I took it early on with a very mild migraine attack. It stopped it dead and I carried on with my afternoon into the evening. Then I had a very rapidly escalating migraine that evening. We're talking nothing to incapacitated in 2 minutes. I took another rizatriptan two hours later and the attack, which had decreased, rapidly increased again. That attack was unlike any I've had before. I still wonder if the fact I'd had a lot of migrants in that period and had taken a lot of rizatriptan containing aspartame was related to some extent.

It seems artificial sweeteners are commonly used in drugs.

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 9 Jun 2020, 11:15pm

Most toothpastes don't contrain xylitol, if they did in beneficial amounts the dental industry would have to beg for charity status.