artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Trigger » 13 Jun 2020, 12:04pm

Tangled Metal wrote:The reformulation of popular food and drink products in line with nutritional advice on sugar is probably a good idea for those unwilling or unable to control sugar intake otherwise. But it does take away choice for those who can. Is that nanny state or for the greater good?

Sugar tax might well be one rear but it's a blunt tool. It'll force use of artificial sweeteners. Rybena had a no no added sugar formulation but people still bought standard. So they changed the standard to be lower in sugar. There is now no longer choice indeed it's taken away the choice of cordial for me. None of the cheaper ones I can drink. I have to buy the expensive ones like elderflower cordial for over three times the price of rybena. It's one of only a few sold without artificial sweeteners now. I'm doing what people with major allergies for certain foods used to have to do before allergen labelling became law. I'm reading labels everywhere. It's really not clear.

Personally I wonder if there's not a better way to reduce sugar. Formulation with less sugar but just as sweet as original, would it not be better to universally dial down sweetness without adding sweeteners to replace sugar? Switch the nation off sugar and sweeteners?

Ironically for me the reduced sugar Ribena now tastes better than the "regular" version, it is about the only cordial I can drink.

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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby st599_uk » 15 Jun 2020, 5:52pm

Jdsk wrote:
st599_uk wrote:They (artificial sweeteners) trick the body in to thinking you've had sugar, you then get a boost of insulin and it makes the post-exercise sugar low significantly worse.

So I can have a diet coke with a meal or snack, but if I have one without then I get twitchy muscles, aches and a mushy head.

As above, any evidence for that effect on insulin release, please?



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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Jdsk » 15 Jun 2020, 6:04pm


Was that an opinion or did it follow measuring anything?



The broad principles of diagnosing hypoglycaemia after it's suspected clinically are:
1 Document the low blood glucose.
2 Measure the plasma insulin concentration during the hypoglycaemia.
3 If the plasma insulin concentration is high then measure the plasma C-peptide concentration to see where the insulin is coming from.

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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby mig » 17 Jun 2020, 3:34pm

Brucey wrote:For many years I have -on shorter, steadier rides, say up to about two and a half hours- drunk relatively little whilst on the bike, preferring to rehydrate properly when I've got home. This certainly isn't what I'd do when racing of course, or even riding hard come to it, but that is a whole different thing.

My default thirst quencher at home has long been (weak, about half or one third normal strength) 'Roses' lime cordial, which has sugar in it. However I have recently tried using a different lime cordials which contains artificial sweeteners instead. Some of this stuff is so sweet that it needs only be present in homeopathic quantities in order to taste quite sweet. However having drunk some of this stuff the taste lingers in the mouth for at least an hour.

Anyway I rode about ten days ago and did a 'normal' distance (about 30-odd miles) and I might have ridden a little bit harder than any of the previous seven or so rides I'd done in the previous ten days. I'd started on the latest lot of lime cordial the previous day, and of course drank more of it when I got home. I felt unusually fatigued by the ride and I didn't do much else that day. In fact I felt so rotten I didn't do much the day after either. The day after that I went for a steady ride and I felt dreadful; as weak as a kitten and -basically- aching all over, even in places I didn't know I could ache.

This feeling has taken about a week to dissipate; only today (when riding back from the supermarket) did I not feel it a struggle on a short climb.
Now I've been tired and achey from hard bike rides many times before. But this wasn't a hard bike ride and it certainly wasn't a 'normal' amount of acheyness. I guess there are lots of possibilities including

- something in the air (pollen?) that I'm allergic to
- the ride was harder than I thought
- the cumulative effect of the previous rides was more than I thought
- I've come down with some (mild, it had no other symptoms) virus
- I'd eaten something that disagreed with me.

So on the last point the only thing that was unusual for me was the lime cordial with the artificial sweeteners in it. I have not had any for the last week. So could it have been that? I looked up the side effects of some of these sweeteners and there is more than one report of fibromyalgia being associated with these sweeteners. Has anyone else had anything similar happen?


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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby bazzo » 17 Jun 2020, 3:36pm

It could have been something completely unrelated to the cycling or the drink. May even have been Covid.

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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Gearoidmuar » 17 Jun 2020, 3:44pm

My differential diagnosis.

1. A virus, including Covid-19
2. Overtraining. You mention 7 rides in 10 days.

Overtraining is easily done. I was in Spain for two and half weeks in Jan, cycling a lot with Spanish friends and a lot of it was long and difficult enough for an old man like me.

When I returned I had considerably insomnia and night sweats etc.
5 weeks of underdoing it and I was fine. Back to normal. Sleeping fine since.