artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Tangled Metal
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Jun 2020, 11:35pm

windmiller wrote:Most toothpastes don't contrain xylitol, if they did in beneficial amounts the dental industry would have to beg for charity status.

You're right, it's sorbitol and others. Although I think there's a toothpaste sold by dentist surgeries under prescription that I think does have it in. Costs a hell of a lot more than normal toothpaste though.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 9 Jun 2020, 11:37pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Isn't Xylitol in toothpastes anyway??

That NHS link, as far as I could be bothered to read I'll admit, kept mentioning it doesn't cause cancer. That's not the same as not causing harm.

AFAIK there's never been independent research of various commonly n used artificial sweeteners on people who suffer migraines. I know anecdotal tales of it triggering migraines isn't a high standard of evidence but unless you can show independent, higher quality research proving it doesn't contribute towards triggering migraines I'll continue with that assertion. Reason why I'm convinced that's true is because I can deliberately trigger a migraine by consuming things with aspartame and a couple of other artificial sweeteners.

I am serious in this because I've tried various food and drink with it. For example, when in Belgium I drank a drink that was sold as a lemon health tonic drink made with very few components and no sugar only aspartame. I got a migraine in 15 minutes of my first sip. I felt the attack coming on so drank only half of the 330ml drink after reading the contents. I was able to detect when rybena lowered it's sugar content and replaced it with artificial sweeteners when I drank it for the first time in years and got a migraine. I have a friend who's my age, a migraine sufferer and can trigger migraines at will by drinking or eating anything with the common artificial sweeteners.

I bet we're not alone. I often wonder if it's safe then why don't they carry out double blind studies with migraine sufferers who claim aspartame and others cause migraines. I would wager you'll find it pretty conclusive that it is a trigger for people with migraines that believe it's a trigger. Bet the migraineurs who weren't given aspartame or other similar sweetener don't get migrants but those with it do. If you test people claiming is a trigger anecdotally.

Now I challenge anyone who has said it's safe find the gold standard research proving what I have experienced isn't down to aspartame. I've yet to find it. I am not the sort for conspiracy theories but I believe artificial sweeteners will be found out to cause harm to some consumers. I believe it be will one day be controlled or prominently highlighted as an ingredient so people can avoid it or one of the other sweeteners.

I do not follow the idea that it causes less deaths than sugar, the vaping health benefits idea for smokers. If it causes harm then it's not a good substitute when simply removing or reducing all sweeteners whether sugar or artificial sweeteners is perhaps the better option. Perhaps humans need weaning off the sweet taste full stop.


Maybe you should read it before commenting on it.

There is no evidence that it causes harm in the quantities you will find in food. Aspartame has been linked to migraines in people that are sensitive to it, but many things are thought to trigger migraines. It doesn't mean that it is dangerous or toxic at all. If something is toxic it affects everyone.

There is simply no comparison with smoking/vaping.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 9 Jun 2020, 11:40pm

windmiller wrote:Most toothpastes don't contrain xylitol, if they did in beneficial amounts the dental industry would have to beg for charity status.

If there was something you could put in toothpaste that put dentists out of business it would be in all toothpaste.
Dentists don't get a lot of business to people that brush regularly anyway.

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 10 Jun 2020, 8:41am

Peter F wrote:
windmiller wrote:Most toothpastes don't contrain xylitol, if they did in beneficial amounts the dental industry would have to beg for charity status.

If there was something you could put in toothpaste that put dentists out of business it would be in all toothpaste.
Dentists don't get a lot of business to people that brush regularly anyway.


Dentists' pay moral lip service in the search for a cure for tooth decay - in reality there is not one single economic reason why they should want one.
Brushing the teeth regularly every day is certainly a good policy, Though the vast majority of adults who do this and still suffer some decay shows that this is not enough.

I know 3 people all over 50 who have seldom or never bothered with mouth hygiene or sugar avoidance. You would expect their teeth to resemble
Stone Henge errected within a Chernobyl disaster. Behold after their decades long pilgrimage to a dentist, who finds after bead blasting and jet washing the crud away, they have perfect teeth and gums.

These rare fortunate individuals almost literally possess the garden of Eden like mouth environment of a neutral PH, strong remineralization and beneficial bacteria.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 10 Jun 2020, 9:36am

windmiller wrote:
Dentists' pay moral lip service in the search for a cure for tooth decay - in reality there is not one single economic reason why they should want one.

Dentists aren't involved in the search for a cure for tooth decay, in the same way that your GP isn't involved in the search for a cure for tonsillitis.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 10 Jun 2020, 9:37am

Hi,
Jdsk wrote:
windmiller wrote:Most sweeteners, natural or not are toxic in anything but small/moderate amounts

What's the evidence for that for aspartame, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

I don't know about evidence but aspartame Upsets my digestive system particularly my stomach something rotten, I avoid artificial sweeteners like the plague.
I remember when the stuff first started being used Like in diet free drinks, on the label it said may affect 25% of people.
Fortunately probably likely that Brucey Isn't necessarily on critical medications.
I've been through all the blood pressure meds Over the last 40 years or so.
Bendroflumethiazide, I finally found some information from a GP in America, where it was said that they reduce your blood salts , That can reduce your blood salts post exercise.
When I went to the doctor with the symptoms he said sounds like low blood salts, he tested and he said it was slightly low he said if I test again it will be normal.
He sent me off with a flea in my ear and said no medical reason why you feel like that.
Put it this way used to come home and lay on the floor for about an hour before the sensation of pain disappeared from my legs post exercise.
As we know there is a difference between an allergy and your body simply not agreeing with medication or some type of chemical.
The symptoms Brucey describes could be attributed to not agreeing with a type of medication?
But he doesn't say he is on any.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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Audax67
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Audax67 » 10 Jun 2020, 9:41am

If all you had on getting home was a sugar-free drink, I'd think that you gave yourself a hefty dose of hypoglycaemia. The sweetness would trigger a release of insulin that would drive down your blood sugar. When I've had it in the past, particularly if I slept the night with it, I'd wake up next day with a roaring headache and all the other symptoms of a hangover. I can't see that lasting a couple of weeks, though, usually just the rest of the day.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

Brucey
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Brucey » 10 Jun 2020, 9:51am

I ate normally as well, so I didn't suffer that way.

I don't think I've ever had muscles that were sore (all over) before or had any cycling-provoked muscle ache last more than a couple of days either. It is all rather mysterious.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

windmiller
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby windmiller » 10 Jun 2020, 10:25am

Peter F wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Dentists' pay moral lip service in the search for a cure for tooth decay - in reality there is not one single economic reason why they should want one.

Dentists aren't involved in the search for a cure for tooth decay, in the same way that your GP isn't involved in the search for a cure for tonsillitis.


Exactly, they only treat symptoms, sometimes they offer mumbled often dubious preventative advice that they know the patient won't or can't adhere to.

Researchers who are or who are funded by big pharma have no incentive to discover real cures because that would damage the cash cow, which needs to milk and maintain medical victims .

GLJoe
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby GLJoe » 10 Jun 2020, 11:14am

Audax67 wrote:If all you had on getting home was a sugar-free drink, I'd think that you gave yourself a hefty dose of hypoglycaemia. The sweetness would trigger a release of insulin that would drive down your blood sugar.


That is a very plausible theory.

There are many types of artificial sweetener. Some are derived directly from natural sources and are relatively harmless (toxicity wise). Some are highly processed and frankly are close to being poisonous chemicals! However one thing that recent research has now shown, is that ingesting sweeteners tricks your system into thinking that there _IS_ sugar coming into your digestive system, which causes a whole bunch of physical processes to start to happen - such as altering ghrelin production, triggering an insulin release etc. And of course if there isn't much carb coming in via other things that you're eating/drinking at the same time, that's not good. Doubly so if you're exercising at the time!

Bottom line, one should try and avoid ALL sweeteners for this very reason alone.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 10 Jun 2020, 11:35am

windmiller wrote:
Peter F wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Dentists' pay moral lip service in the search for a cure for tooth decay - in reality there is not one single economic reason why they should want one.

Dentists aren't involved in the search for a cure for tooth decay, in the same way that your GP isn't involved in the search for a cure for tonsillitis.


Exactly, they only treat symptoms, sometimes they offer mumbled often dubious preventative advice that they know the patient won't or can't adhere to.

Researchers who are or who are funded by big pharma have no incentive to discover real cures because that would damage the cash cow, which needs to milk and maintain medical victims .


Dentists give clear advice on good oral hygiene. Mine even told me that there was no value in me going every year for a check up and to come back in two years.

The "Big pharma" comment is just conspiracy stuff with zero basis in fact. Careful, your tinfoil hat is slipping.

Peter F
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Peter F » 10 Jun 2020, 11:40am

GLJoe wrote:
Audax67 wrote:If all you had on getting home was a sugar-free drink, I'd think that you gave yourself a hefty dose of hypoglycaemia. The sweetness would trigger a release of insulin that would drive down your blood sugar.


That is a very plausible theory.

There are many types of artificial sweetener. Some are derived directly from natural sources and are relatively harmless (toxicity wise). Some are highly processed and frankly are close to being poisonous chemicals! However one thing that recent research has now shown, is that ingesting sweeteners tricks your system into thinking that there _IS_ sugar coming into your digestive system, which causes a whole bunch of physical processes to start to happen - such as altering ghrelin production, triggering an insulin release etc. And of course if there isn't much carb coming in via other things that you're eating/drinking at the same time, that's not good. Doubly so if you're exercising at the time!

Bottom line, one should try and avoid ALL sweeteners for this very reason alone.


This is mostly rubbish. The "natural sources and are relatively harmless" followed by "highly process and frankly close to being poisonous chemicals" betrays a lack of understanding of what causes toxicity as well as chemistry in general It's frankly claptrap. Most of the most toxic substances known to man are natural.
I thought this was a cycling forum not a hotbed of pseudo science rubbish :lol:

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 10 Jun 2020, 11:49am

hi,
A week, do you drink a lot of water?
In my youth I sometimes feel a bit rubbish and I think basically I was dehydrating, I would compensate this by drinking water and then I feel rubbish probably for a week or two Not realising what I was doing.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

GLJoe
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby GLJoe » 10 Jun 2020, 11:52am

Peter F wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Isn't Xylitol in toothpastes anyway??

That NHS link, as far as I could be bothered to read I'll admit, kept mentioning it doesn't cause cancer. That's not the same as not causing harm.
....


Maybe you should read it before commenting on it.


I read it. Its a pretty bad article to be honest, as unfortunately are many pieces of advice/information on the NHS website.
Over the last couple of years, I've often been researching some aspects of health and nutrition, and up will pop a link to the NHS, and unfortunately, more often than not, the information there is either woefully out of date, or its so politically correct/non committal, as to be virtually useless, especially if you're trying to find out what CAUSES a problem, rather than simply identifying what it is (in which case, the info there is a lot better).

But that is the issue in mainstream medicine isn't it? its all about treating the symptoms, rather than getting to the root cause of what caused it in the first place. And its not just the medical industry itself that's to blame. Most patients are looking for a magic pill to sort out their ailments, rather than change their lifestyle and eating habits (which 9 times out of 10 are the real culprits that cause the issues in the first place!)

Back to the artificial sweetener issue, there is a current saying about food in general that probably applies here:
' If man made it .... don't eat it! '

Jdsk
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Re: artificial sweeteners; are they poison?

Postby Jdsk » 10 Jun 2020, 11:58am

Audax67 wrote:If all you had on getting home was a sugar-free drink, I'd think that you gave yourself a hefty dose of hypoglycaemia. The sweetness would trigger a release of insulin that would drive down your blood sugar.

The release of insulin is driven by glucose concentration outside the relevant pancreatic cells.

Any evidence that artificial sweeteners cause the release of insulin? Or hypoglycaemia? It's an easy enough assertion to test, and it has been. (I know of one study with saccharin showing an insulin response but it was never confirmed.)

Jonathan