Standing up pedalling

Richard36
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Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 25 Jun 2020, 9:53pm

Hey everyone

First post....

I was wondering if you could answer an 'out of the blue' type question?!

I am a movement restoration coach here in Scotland.

I recently returned to the Bike and am loving being back on it (all my recent endurance work has been crawling based - don't ask, it's a long story and characters are in short supply).

My question is - how have you found stand up pedalling as an upperbody exercise? Lets use the context of this being done for prolonged times eg long or short but intense hill rides were standing up was the chosen option....for the purpose of challenging the upperbody.

I should have said that I came across this after a lower back disc herniation and found that standing up on hills allowed me much of the same leg workout (though not the same as seated), less pressure on lower back and more upperbody work.


I herniated a disc in lower back years ago and sitting down would bring me pain once I finished a ride - especially if I got lazy with keeping my lower back flat.

This got me intersted in standing up to engage glutes and core muscles more. What I then found was that if I kept my weight over the handle bars I would engage most upperbody muscles aswell - to stabalise, weight bear etc.

I work with several cycling enthusiasts with bad backs and standing up more has made a big difference.

Actually doing this resulted in two of them ditching their gym memberships as they now found they were getting enough upperbody stimulation from these standing up sessions.

Thanks folks.

Stay safe.

Richard

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Paulatic
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Paulatic » 25 Jun 2020, 10:05pm

I once read, probably in a Dick Francis novel that jockeys ride bikes with the saddle removed. They do many miles like this to strengthen the legs. Not sure how it could increase core strength anymore than going for a walk or run.
I think most cyclists get out of the saddle for a short while to temporarily keep the momentum in the current gear.
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hercule
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby hercule » 26 Jun 2020, 7:28am

Forget about saddle and pedals and try riding a kick bike / footbike. It’s a serious suggestion... mine has been invaluable in helping me recover from various knee and back problems over the last year or so. I think it’s fantastic and I can’t understand why more people aren’t using them! They are popular in Europe, particularly in the Czech Republic (where most of them are made).

I’ve been meaning to post a review of the activity and my machine but not got round to it yet. Mine’s a Yedoo Trexx. You get very good exercise, more like running than cycling admittedly.

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Paulatic
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Paulatic » 26 Jun 2020, 7:37am

Kick bike/scooter this is very interesting review from @steveindenmark ... viewtopic.php?t=99063
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Jdsk
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Jdsk » 26 Jun 2020, 8:54am

Richard36 wrote:I work with several cycling enthusiasts with bad backs and standing up more has made a big difference.

How do you measure that, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 26 Jun 2020, 10:13am

Hi,
Paulatic wrote:I once read, probably in a Dick Francis novel that jockeys ride bikes with the saddle removed. They do many miles like this to strengthen the legs. Not sure how it could increase core strength anymore than going for a walk or run.
I think most cyclists get out of the saddle for a short while to temporarily keep the momentum in the current gear.

Some cyclist never get out of the saddle I never used to.
Walking and running don't improve your getting out of the saddle muscles I have found.
it's possible that running might improve it somewhat.
This is because standing out of the saddle is similar to running in respect of the fact that your leg is bent for part of the time.
Walking doesn't necessarily include this operation, unless you are walking up the hill for a long Time which requires you to scramble.
This is because Walking Mostly requires landing on a straight leg, and at no one time are both feet off the ground, In contrast running both feet off the ground for a time and you land on one leg, so running is a bit like jumping from foot to foot.
For someone who walks and cycles running is quite difficult if you've never done it before.
some actually say they can't run at all although they can cycle for long periods, it's not impossible and the muscles involved don't need that much work, you only have to do it for a bit, but you do need to conscientiously run and I would say more than a mile to without stopping.
it might be that I'm getting old but I've found that just doing an exercise does not necessarily make you good at it, or in other words just doing an exercise does not maintain your fitness to do that exercise.
Once you develop a weakness and you are not necessarily recovering from illness or in activity, then in my Experience only Physiotherapy work will retrain those weak muscles and connections.
I once thought that running was not good for cycling, but that all changed when I read about the chap locally who was a club Cyclist I also completed a marathon in less than three hours.
I have found that if I go on the treadmill for 40 minutes walking and running, next day my cycling is improved somewhat, of course this could be interpreted other ways simply by saying that doing short exercise the day before you do a longer exercise seems to boost you a bit?
for some time now a few years maybe even more I tend to involve a lot of standing in my training.
It is certainly not energy-efficient for sure the only thing it will do is build strength in your legs to be able to stand with minimum stress.
But of course there are different types of standing out of the saddle there is the racing type and then there's the laboured hard grinding which I seem to do a lot of :P
cardiovascular wise I think that cycling has to be very near the top if not top on this improvement.
Probably because it's not weight bearing in the saddle. So it's relatively easy to do it continuously for long periods of time and unlike walking and running which is simply hard work makes your feet ache too.
When I started doing walking in my early teens I wasn't much different from everybody else, but this improved in my late teens somewhat because the amount of cycling I was doing and basically I then left everybody behind in my group.
leg strength wise (the ability to stand out of the saddle with minimum stress, in other words non-buckling of legs) running I think probably will help this quite a lot, but I wouldn't necessarily say that time spent running would necessarily be less than time spent getting out of the saddle on the bike intentionally in a high gear?
I keep questioning my core strength but I do suffer from a bad back for decades now, also with age comes the facet impingement, that's the spine bones getting closer together and putting pressure on a nerve which will simulate a bad back weak core or gut problems, so if you're getting on in age Even your GP will struggle to give you a correct diagnosis.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Jun 2020, 10:27am

Richard36 wrote: ... My question is - how have you found stand up pedalling as an upperbody exercise? Lets use the context of this being done for prolonged times eg long or short but intense hill rides were standing up was the chosen option....for the purpose of challenging the upperbody. ...


I'm at a loss to see what is gained by getting on a bike to do this. AFAIK, as training for competitive cyclists has got more scientific - ie has moved on from simply getting the miles in - things like weight training / gym work have been adopted to strengthen the parts pedalling does not reach.

Wrestling with a bike while honking must exercise the upper body a bit, but not much, in proportion to the effort being made.

Richard36
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 26 Jun 2020, 3:47pm

Jdsk wrote:
Richard36 wrote:I work with several cycling enthusiasts with bad backs and standing up more has made a big difference.

How do you measure that, please?

Thanks

Jonathan



I am not sure I fully understand the question. I measure it in that I have sevewl cycling enthusiast clients that often complained about back pain after a ride. After trialling stand up pedalling they noted no back pain.

I not this down to the engagement of the glutes to open the hips which is missing from sitting pedalling.

There is also far higher core engagement instead up pedalling.

Richard

Richard36
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 26 Jun 2020, 3:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:
I'm at a loss to see what is gained by getting on a bike to do this. AFAIK, as training for competitive cyclists has got more scientific - ie has moved on from simply getting the miles in - things like weight training / gym work have been adopted to strengthen the parts pedalling does not reach.

Wrestling with a bike while honking must exercise the upper body a bit, but not much, in proportion to the effort being made.



I will state that this does not have to be seen as a complete replacement for upperbody strength work.

What I said is that I have clients (and I am no expert in high level bike racing of any sort) that felt far less need to maintain gym memberships once we started using stand up pedalling for their rides.

The switch wasn't necessarily every ride, but we commonly used it for every second ride or at least once a week.

We did this b/c it has practical application in that it actually helped us/them on the bike and didn't require separate gym sessions (especially when gyms are closed). They were also getting stronger on the bike by actually being on a bike.

Try it for a few sessions....on the flat, uphill, for steady state or intervals.

Richard

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foxyrider
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby foxyrider » 28 Jun 2020, 12:45am

Richard36 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
I'm at a loss to see what is gained by getting on a bike to do this. AFAIK, as training for competitive cyclists has got more scientific - ie has moved on from simply getting the miles in - things like weight training / gym work have been adopted to strengthen the parts pedalling does not reach.

Wrestling with a bike while honking must exercise the upper body a bit, but not much, in proportion to the effort being made.



I will state that this does not have to be seen as a complete replacement for upperbody strength work.

What I said is that I have clients (and I am no expert in high level bike racing of any sort) that felt far less need to maintain gym memberships once we started using stand up pedalling for their rides.

The switch wasn't necessarily every ride, but we commonly used it for every second ride or at least once a week.

We did this b/c it has practical application in that it actually helped us/them on the bike and didn't require separate gym sessions (especially when gyms are closed). They were also getting stronger on the bike by actually being on a bike.

Try it for a few sessions....on the flat, uphill, for steady state or intervals.

Richard


how far, how long? uphill? flat?
I ride out of the saddle for some of every ride, it might be on climbs, away from the traffic lights or just to have a stretch. I have legs like tree trunks and arms like twigs
Convention? what's that then?
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Richard36
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 28 Jun 2020, 7:00am

Short bursts away from lights are great, but as you say it's mainly legs.

I would pick a few variations eg:
Intervals with the work and rest out of the saddle.
A hill - all out the saddle.
A stretch of steady state (terrain variable), and stand for a few miles.

I tried this for a few 10 mile trips without sitting (with the exception of reaching the top of a big climb and just needing to cruise down the other side - so I sat down).

Once again I am not saying this replaces upperbody work (that would do me out of a job). What I am getting at is that this can be an effective way to introduce some upperbody work/glute and core work into your rides. This can have a very positive effect on any lower back issues and can definitely challenge the upperbody - especially if you are struggling to get to the gym and do some additional work.

Richard

mattsccm
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby mattsccm » 28 Jun 2020, 2:14pm

Might it be not that the standing is good but the sitting position is poor and therefore a break from it feels good.?
If you are getting much of a upper body work out from standing cycling you are doing it wrong any way methinks.

Richard36
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 29 Jun 2020, 8:20pm

mattsccm wrote:Might it be not that the standing is good but the sitting position is poor and therefore a break from it feels good.?
If you are getting much of a upper body work out from standing cycling you are doing it wrong any way methinks.


I totally agree that the break from the sitting is definitely a factor.

I would however disagree on the workout on the upper half meaning something is not right. I guess it's just an 'each to their own' scenario.

Just thought I would share after seeing others benefit.

Richard

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foxyrider
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby foxyrider » 29 Jun 2020, 11:38pm

mattsccm wrote:Might it be not that the standing is good but the sitting position is poor and therefore a break from it feels good.?
If you are getting much of a upper body work out from standing cycling you are doing it wrong any way methinks.


have to agree, if you are 'working' your upper body to any large extent when riding a bike you are doing it wrong.

and also - why do i need to go to a gym? Maybe if i wanted to look like Charles Atlas (remember him?) but actually i don't, i'm quite capable of following a fitness regime without going to gym, i've had 40 odd years practice! :roll:
Convention? what's that then?
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Richard36
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Re: Standing up pedalling

Postby Richard36 » 30 Jun 2020, 11:40am

foxyrider wrote:
mattsccm wrote:Might it be not that the standing is good but the sitting position is poor and therefore a break from it feels good.?
If you are getting much of a upper body work out from standing cycling you are doing it wrong any way methinks.


have to agree, if you are 'working' your upper body to any large extent when riding a bike you are doing it wrong.

and also - why do i need to go to a gym? Maybe if i wanted to look like Charles Atlas (remember him?) but actually i don't, i'm quite capable of following a fitness regime without going to gym, i've had 40 odd years practice! :roll:


Before we get a little fiesty, let's stop!

I said it's an each to their own scenario....originally brought to my attention by an ironman competitor (Kona). This doesn't mean that it works at all, but made it worth at least looking into. I did....and it works.

Why do you need to go to a gym? You don't and I never said you did. I said that the clients I have were gym goers and have now found a way to get some of the upper body stimulation that 'they' were after - without having to pay gym fees.