Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Would you like to be vaccinated against CV soon?

Yes
163
78%
Tend to yes
7
3%
Tend to no
2
1%
No
13
6%
Never
9
4%
Don't know yet, maybe later
15
7%
 
Total votes: 209

Psamathe
Posts: 17703
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by Psamathe »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:....
There's already talk of a Covid-passport.What next?Flu-passport?Cold-passport?Gay-pasport?We are heading in the wrong direction.

Do you also think a Yellow Fever vaccination certificate is "wrong"?

As I (currently) see things, Covid-19 is a dangerous infectious disease against which a safe vaccination significantly reduces (both spread and individual risks). So if you chose not to take those safety measures should you still be allowed to increase the risks to those around you? Why is it wrong for a pub landlord to decide to lower the risks to his/her customers from a dangerous disease by implementing a "vaccination certificate required to use the pub".

Ian
thirdcrank
Posts: 36778
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by thirdcrank »

The potential problems don't involve knowing a boy whose danced with a girl etc.

Women who are pregnant or who may be, are currently not vaccinated and we will be a while getting to younger age groups anyway.
Psamathe
Posts: 17703
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote:The potential problems don't involve knowing a boy whose danced with a girl etc.

Women who are pregnant or who may be, are currently not vaccinated and we will be a while getting to younger age groups anyway.

I think that domestic UK vaccine passports are less controversial once everybody has had the opportunity to have had a vaccine.

But even before then e.g. my Mum's bridge cub (mostly over 60 year olds) - even when not everybody has not had the opportunity what does it say about our society when a Bridge Club is blocked from opening safely to those members vaccinated because others (who don't even play bridge) can't do the same 'cos not yet vaccinated. Blocking others from doing something just because you can't do it seems to me to say something about the nature of our society - and NOT something good.

n.b. Medical exemption is very straightforward (both limited time and indefinite - pregnant women are generally not pregnant forever) Some people might need exempting on genuine medical grounds and they'd get a "passport" with exemption completed by e.g. their GP so would be treated as "vaccinated".

Ian
slowster
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Posts: 4658
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by slowster »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:Whether they are employed by the NHS or not is irrelevant.They are entitled to their opinion!Many of our friends work for the NHS and many of them do not support this.Your employer,whether NHS or not should not be allowed to dictate your views!

Whatever their personal opinions and views, a doctor who suggests to their patients that a particular treatment is unnecessary or unsafe, contrary to the published medical evidence, studies and the guidelines of bodies such as the NHS and NICE, is a danger to their patients.

Doctors are in a position of great power and authority, but with that comes responsibility. If they breach the rules under which they are licensed to practise, then they are rightly liable to disciplinary action by the GMC.

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
ncutler wrote:What he really needs is to be reported to the GMC and struck off.

That is not only extreme but it could set a dangerous president.Be very careful what you wish for as you might not like the end result!

I suspect ncutler's comment is possibly somewhat hyperbolic, and I imagine that the GP in question would merely have his knuckles rapped if he had indeed said what has been attributed to him by Biospace*, provided he undertook not to repeat such comments to his patients or the public. If he persisted in making such comments, then it probably would be appropriate and necessary for him to be struck off. Just as it was absolutely appropriate and necessary for Andrew Wakefield to be struck off.

* It's possible that Biospace has misunderstood or misinterpreted his GP's comments, but that would only illustrate why doctors have to be very careful in what they say to reduce the likelihood of that happening.

As for the issue of vaccination being compulsory, I think there would be very little support amongst the general public and in Parliament for such legislation. However, it might conceivably be appropriate, legal and even essential for some employers to require certain employees in particular circumstances to have been vaccinated in order to comply with the duties imposed on those employers under existing health and safety at work legislation to protect the health of their employees and of others. If so, that is likely to be something which would be determined by the courts, who would have to judge whether it was appropriate. In some health care settings vaccination might be essential to protect the employee, e.g. a nurse working on a Covid ward, or to protect patients or other vulnerable people (especially if vaccination is proved to significantly reduce transmissibility), e.g. an employee in a care home.

It is possible - even likely - that some commercial service providers might require customers to have been vaccinated, for example an airline might insist that all passengers have been vaccinated (although it might be more likely that the destination countries would require this of the carrier). If so, that is something which society and the government and courts will have to deal with. We already have laws that address when discrimination is lawful or unlawful, and which protect certain groups against discrimination. I would expect that similar such laws could be introduced which would appropriately protect the rights of unvaccinated individuals and balance them against the rights and needs of other people and wider society.
Last edited by slowster on 25 Feb 2021, 5:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 5818
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Those who won't be having it are worried they'll 'forced' to via emotional blackmail etc.


Several people have complained about "emotional blackmail"

It seems to me to be an aversion to accepting the fact that refusing vaccination doesn't just affect you, but also others. In other words, not "emotional blackmail" at all, but rather "facing reality".
mattsccm
Posts: 5113
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by mattsccm »

I like that reply above.
It most definitely seems a good idea that it should be allowed for organsiations to insist on it be they pubs or employers. If you don't like that you can go elsewhere. Some organsisations won't, some will.
mattsccm
Posts: 5113
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by mattsccm »

Just read page 85. Individuals are not entitled to their opinion. They represent their employer or profession and must toe the party line. Feel free to object but not when working for some one who promotes the opposite. No respect wht so ever unless the object removes themself from the security of the employer.
djnotts
Posts: 3060
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by djnotts »

mattsccm wrote:Just read page 85. Individuals are not entitled to their opinion. They represent their employer or profession and must toe the party line. Feel free to object but not when working for some one who promotes the opposite. No respect wht so ever unless the object removes themself from the security of the employer.


Absolutely. I promoted and argued for policies with which I did not agree (though there was no question of opposing actual science/evidence!). That or resign. Can't take the shilling but not the line.
Psamathe
Posts: 17703
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by Psamathe »

mattsccm wrote:Just read page 85. Individuals are not entitled to their opinion. They represent their employer or profession and must toe the party line. Feel free to object but not when working for some one who promotes the opposite. No respect wht so ever unless the object removes themself from the security of the employer.

Trouble is that means Witty, van Dam, Vallance, etc. are not (necessarily) providing their opinions at the Press Conferences but just following the line decided by Johnson. Their appearance is then nothing more than trying to provide assurances that Johnson is right (even when "the science" recommends something different).

(I've actually come to regard that team as being the Johnson support act anyway - given how they have failed to speak out when the science recommends different course from Johnson's chosen path - so I ignore their assurances anyway).

Ian
pwa
Posts: 17408
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote:
mattsccm wrote:Just read page 85. Individuals are not entitled to their opinion. They represent their employer or profession and must toe the party line. Feel free to object but not when working for some one who promotes the opposite. No respect wht so ever unless the object removes themself from the security of the employer.

Trouble is that means Witty, van Dam, Vallance, etc. are not (necessarily) providing their opinions at the Press Conferences but just following the line decided by Johnson. Their appearance is then nothing more than trying to provide assurances that Johnson is right (even when "the science" recommends something different).

(I've actually come to regard that team as being the Johnson support act anyway - given how they have failed to speak out when the science recommends different course from Johnson's chosen path - so I ignore their assurances anyway).

Ian

There are two separate but related things: the science, and the political choices (hopefully) informed by the science. We don't want our government ignoring the science but we also don't want the unelected scientists taking over and dictating what we can and cannot do. So we have a fusion of the science and the politics. It is messy, it is imperfect, but it is the way a democracy has to do it. Scientists can tell you what the effect on transmission will be if we close schools, pubs and gyms, and tell people they cannot move about except for a limited number of reasons, but the decision whether to adopt those measures is a political one that involves non-science factors such as our values and financial considerations, and the mood of the nation. Will people accept certain measures? Those are decisions for politicians.
pga
Posts: 302
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 9:40pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by pga »

In this digital age our lives are monitored, whether we like it or not, in more ways than we are prepared to acknowledge and it does slightly disingenuous to refuse the Covid vaccine on the grounds that it somehow is an attack on personal freedom. For those of my generation we did not have this choice. During national service, serving in the UK and abroad, I was forced to have preventive injections. I survived as I did later when I travelled the world when you had to show evidence of up to date smallpox and other vaccines if you wished to cross a border. In Cambodia I had blood poisoning and my life was saved by a village doctor who gave me Penicillin.

Medical science has made the world a far healthier place. My father had Scarlet Fever, my mother had Typhoid and my sister in law Polio. Thankfully all survived but many did not. Today we hear little of these killers.

Please think again those of you who are reluctant to have the vaccine. There are far more attacks on personal liberty out there.
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531colin
Posts: 16139
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by 531colin »

Interesting and quite easily-digested program on TV last night about the Covid vaccines, presented by the twin doctors who do "Operation Ouch" (which is much appreciated by my granddaughter.)
At least I found it interesting....I suppose if you are frightened of GM wheat, it would be terrifying!
Psamathe
Posts: 17703
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by Psamathe »

Chatting to somebody in the village yesterday and they have just been invited and say they are unlikely to go - because it's a 65+ mile round trip drive for them to get to the nearest vaccinating centre offered (except they could take a couple of taxis for a 10 mile trip to the station and take the train!). Makes me wonder how I'll manage as well.

Ian
rmurphy195
Posts: 2199
Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by rmurphy195 »

Psamathe wrote:Chatting to somebody in the village yesterday and they have just been invited and say they are unlikely to go - because it's a 65+ mile round trip drive for them to get to the nearest vaccinating centre offered (except they could take a couple of taxis for a 10 mile trip to the station and take the train!). Makes me wonder how I'll manage as well.

Ian


Sounds like something has gone very wrong here, that sort of journey should not be happening with the systems they are setting up. If booking online perhaps they should try again.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
Psamathe
Posts: 17703
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

Post by Psamathe »

rmurphy195 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Chatting to somebody in the village yesterday and they have just been invited and say they are unlikely to go - because it's a 65+ mile round trip drive for them to get to the nearest vaccinating centre offered (except they could take a couple of taxis for a 10 mile trip to the station and take the train!). Makes me wonder how I'll manage as well.

Ian


Sounds like something has gone very wrong here, that sort of journey should not be happening with the systems they are setting up. If booking online perhaps they should try again.

Nope. After posting I thought I'd better check so went online, put in the NHS number for a family member who would qualify (but wont be getting vaccinated), my postcode and it's quite correct, 33.8 miles each way driving by road according to Google (on roads you would not be cycling on).

Ian
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