Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

[PH]

I went with the missus as she was being jabbed against CV (she is a teacher and a pensioner this year). I was shocked at the level of infirmity and obesity. Chelsea tractors were disgorging motorised wheelchairs to make the 10 meter dash into the doctors surgery. It was like something out of the zombie apocalypse. The sheer number of overweight and immobile patients was shocking.

I've been jabbed this evening, yay!
Just about everyone else there came by car, fat, thin and in between.
I'll ask again because no one answered last time, where is the evidence that those not obese are any less addicted to oil?

[Jdsk]

I'll ask again because no one answered last time, where is the evidence that those not obese are any less addicted to oil?

I would guess that there are no relevant studies if you insist on that wording. Do you mean people who travel in cars etc compared to people who don't?

Jonathan

[gbnz]

It depends if you want to reduce the problem as much as possible or to find people to blame..

I've no interest in applying blame, like many aspects of life obesity only effects me (Nb. Thus I ensure that I'm not obese).

If an obese person wants to be obese, thats their choice. As long as they're not trying to sit next to me on a bus or train, it's not an issue (Nb. Rather like smokers trying to stand next to me, they soon move away when instructed to do so)

[PH]

I'll ask again because no one answered last time, where is the evidence that those not obese are any less addicted to oil?

I would guess that there are no relevant studies if you insist on that wording. Do you mean people who travel in cars etc compared to people who don't?

Jonathan

Well, the title of the thread links the obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil. I'm not convinced there is such a link.
I don't doubt that many people would be healthier is they were more active, I'm just asking if there's any justification for the title of the thread. My observation is not, very active people are just as likely to be addicted to oil as non active, in many cases they drive more to participate in their activity than those sat at home watching TV or playing on a forum.

[Vorpal]

Every 30 minutes you spend each day in a car increases your risk of being obese by 3%.
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/ ... -you-fat#1

Commuters using public transport have less body fat that those who drive to work...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/08/21/ ... e-to-work/

A review of connections between obesity & motorised transport
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... sportation

Car drivers are 4 kg heavier than cyclists
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/173957/ ... vier-than/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/walk-bik ... -1.3498061

[gcogger]

Every 30 minutes you spend each day in a car increases your risk of being obese by 3%.
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/ ... -you-fat#1

Commuters using public transport have less body fat that those who drive to work...
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/08/21/ ... e-to-work/

A review of connections between obesity & motorised transport
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... sportation

Car drivers are 4 kg heavier than cyclists
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/173957/ ... vier-than/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/walk-bik ... -1.3498061

It's a very difficult thing to study. Those studies show a correlation, but not the causation. In other words, they could show that sitting in a car rather than cycling or walking to the bus stop makes people overweight. Or they could could show that people who are overweight are more likely to drive a car rather than cycle or walk to the bus stop (because these activities are harder if you are overweight).
I suspect the former is true, and that it's a feedback loop involving both, but that's just an assumption. It's easy to jump to conclusions that are not demonstrated by the evidence. (Not picking on this post in particular, just using it as an example).

[Vorpal]

It's a very difficult thing to study. Those studies show a correlation, but not the causation. In other words, they could show that sitting in a car rather than cycling or walking to the bus stop makes people overweight. Or they could could show that people who are overweight are more likely to drive a car rather than cycle or walk to the bus stop (because these activities are harder if you are overweight).
I suspect the former is true, and that it's a feedback loop involving both, but that's just an assumption. It's easy to jump to conclusions that are not demonstrated by the evidence. (Not picking on this post in particular, just using it as an example).

I wasn't trying to demonstrate causation. Merely that there is a link.

It was partly in response to

Well, the title of the thread links the obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil. I'm not convinced there is such a link.

Nonetheless, it is true both that people who choose active travel are less likely to be overweight, and that those who are overweight are less likely to choose active travel. Or at least people who have various health conditions are less likely to select active travel, at the the same time that those who select active travel are generally healthier. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2013/242383/

There may be some exceptions. This study in Japan, for example, found that people over 75 who still drove were more active that those who did not. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6025007/

This study found similar results... driving has been linked to lower levels of physical activity in young and middle-aged adults, but there is evidence that driving may facilitate physical activity in older adults. Also that walkers, cyclists and mixed-mode users of all ages are less sedentary and more physically active than car/motor-vehicle users and that assessing driving status (yes/no) alone may mask important variations in physical activity.

All of the studies suggest that we still have a great deal to learn about the relationship between transport modes, choices, and health. But I think that it is pretty clear that driving is a health risk for most people. Not only for physical activity, but also the contributions to pollution and traffic injury. And the more someone drives, the greater the risk.

[531colin]

People over 75 who still drive are on average more active than those who have stopped driving.....thats surprising.

People over 75 who are still active are on average more likely to still be driving than those who are inactive.....thats profoundly un-surprising.

I'm sure there is correlation between driving and activity in those over 75, but its my guess that the causation is my second example.

I'm not yet 75 (74 in a few months) and I spent most of yesterday up and down the ladder fixing the TV aerial and the associated wiring. I am frankly horrified by the number of people my sort of age whose entire world seems to be their armchair and television. I intend to keep driving as long as I think its safe for me to drive, because driving lets me visit my grandkids, go cycling and walking where I choose rather than where I can get to, and also follow other interests.

When I was working, I chose to cycle to work.

I think that "morbid obesity" is a useful concept. You can argue all you like about whether or not BMI is a useful concept; it has its flaws, but its established and its easy to apply.

[al_yrpal]

I was born in the early 1940s and remember the 50s and 60s fairly clearly. This article sums up our decline into a country where fat people are more numerous and it isnt all about car ownership...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048763.stm

The damaging things IMO have been the decline in physical work, the change in diet giving access to unlimited food and the importation of US fast food, the TV, and the availability of motor vehicles to travel. In the road of 25 houses I lived in as a child only 2 households had a car. Nappies clothes and bedding got washed by hand, we had a mangle. Mum walked a mile to the shops almost every day, Dad worked 7 days a week on shifts as a steam train driver with long walks to and from work every day. My school was more than a mile way and I walked home for lunch too. We were rationed until 1954. The allotment and our chickens provided a lot of our diet.

Now, lots of work is sedentary office based. Fast food and bought sandwiches for lunch. Sugar packed cereals for breakfast, junk takeaways, lots more tinned stuff, pasta and rice instead of spuds. Cooking oils.

We need to modify our lifestyles and a lot of people have, but, a lot do nothing. Cars are a factor but lazy diets are the main factor in obesity.

Al

[Mick F]

................... but if I wasn't active and just sat about watching the goggle box from my armchair, I wouldn't get fat.

Why?
Because I have an off-switch when it comes to food.
These days, I only eat twice a day. Nothing at all between breakfast and evening meal. No snacks, nothing.

Some people aren't so lucky.
Some people are genetically programmed to eat and eat and eat.

[xerxes]

pasta and rice instead of spuds. Cooking oils.

Agree with everything you wrote except the bit I've quoted. Pasta & rice can be just as healthy as spuds, maybe even more so if wholegrain. And olive oil is definitely better for you than lard!

[al_yrpal]

From what I have observed today people tend to overdo pasta and rice which we didnt eat back then apart from rice pudding. Spuds were alway caked with dirt and generally got peeled so in comparison todays rice and pasta are convenience foods. I always use olive oil very sparingly and prefer vegetable oil because its generally UK produced rapeseed oil. Read the label...

Bread and dripping was a big treat!

Mick says he has a fried breakfast generally, no wonder he doesnt want lunch....!

Al

[Mick F]

Mick says he has a fried breakfast generally, no wonder he doesnt want lunch....!

Yes, but I used to eat lunch.
As I've become older, I'm eating less.
As a yoof, you couldn't give me enough food, but these days, my appetite has tailed right off.
I could lose a stone or so if I gave up beer, but I wouldn't be happy.

Today (for instance)
Two rashers of bacon fried, and a fried egg, and a round of buttered toast.
No lunch.
Been out in the garden doing clearing and stuff this morning, then walked the dog for a couple of miles including two steep hills.
Been out shopping with Mrs Mick F in the car.
Home, lit the fire, walked the dog for a quick outing.
Had a can of beer, and now just started my second.

Evening meal maybe at 6pm.
We plan on steak and (oven) chips with grilled tomatoes and maybe some coleslaw.
Nothing, other than a glass or two of wine this evening, until breakfast tomorrow.

We know people who snack continually especially in the evening. Peanuts, crisps, cheese and crackers, chocolates etc.
They may eat a "healthy breakfast" but the rest of their intake is anything but healthy.

Fingers crossed, I'll be out riding tomorrow morning. 25miles will do me fine but I still won't bother with lunch on return.

[Jdsk]

Which debate do we want here...

... food nationalism
... nostalgia
... other people are awful/ lazy
... shame and blame
... declinism

or how to reduce obesity starting from where we are now?

Jonathan

[Mick F]

............ how to reduce obesity starting from where we are now?

Impossible task.


Have scales at the entrances to shops/cafes/pubs/restaurants. Too heavy, and you can't go in.
Ditto for busses, trains, aeroplanes. Too heavy, and you can't travel.
Ditto for petrol stations. No fuel.
Ditto for shops of any sort at all.
All obese people should be forcefully rounded up and put in an establishment where their food is rationed until they become thin enough for release.