NHS Complaint or Alternatives (Very Unhappy With Consultant)

[Psamathe]

Going private could soon eat up all ones savings with no guarantee of success

True. But it's where I am now and NHS route has been a matter of waiting and getting nowhere. And my condition is a significant life impact (not waiting on an ingrown toenail). GP originally urgently referred me over 12 months ago (condition started 18+ months ago) and it's been an ongoing slow decline over that time. The initial urgent referral was just dismissed over the telephone with "no alarm bells" and a scan (scan didn't happen and as I was getting worse and worse I ended-up having to have that done privately ...). GP has made subsequent urgent referrals e.g. when I could hardly walk into their consulting rooms - and whilst they aren't great at dealing with non-triage telephone calls, I've had a couple of GP appointments which ended-up 50+ mins as they investigated (more thoroughly than any of the NHS consultants).

And that puts me in a Catch 22. NHS route isn't working. The private consultant/team seem good helpful, carrying out thorough investigations. Their tests have found stuff (the tests the NHS have not even bothered to do like a basic hearing test). I'd love to switch to NHS (and have all aspects of my condition investigated) but they seem to only want "another name crossed off their waiting list" - which I'm finding really disheartening.

So, after yesterday's consultation I'm wondering if going down the complaint route might move the NHS to actually start helping me.

Ian

[thirdcrank]

I still persist with my advice to be clear what you want to achieve.

I've dealt with a lot of complaints, especially when preparations were being made for the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission.) FWIW, in my day it was the Independent Police Complaints Commission. IIRC I had no formal training for dealing with complaints but I twigged early on that unless the complaint was of a criminal offence, then establishing what the complainant wanted to achieve was important. The difference between "What do you expect me to do about it?" and "How would you like me to deal with this?" Many had no idea at all.

[Psamathe]

I still persist with my advice to be clear what you want to achieve.

I've dealt with a lot of complaints, especially when preparations were being made for the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission.) FWIW, in my day it was the Independent Police Complaints Commission. IIRC I had no formal training for dealing with complaints but I twigged early on that unless the complaint was of a criminal offence, then establishing what the complainant wanted to achieve was important. The difference between "What do you expect me to do about it?" and "How would you like me to deal with this?" Many had no idea at all.

My current thinking is I'm seeking to get the NHS to start diagnosing and treating me for the issue (at present they are just "kicking things down the road", delaying doing anything). Which is where my concern comes in about complaining as in reality, if I do complain and my complaint upheld, will this consultant just happily start doing things better or will there be an underlying resentment as I've caused something bad on their record? And even if I switch to a different consultant will there be resentment as I've cause something bad on the record of one of their colleagues? I do worry that a complaint might cause the consultant to "go through the motions, by the book" but maybe without trying where things become challenging.

Certainly if the consultant concerned said "what do you want me to do about it?" I would be able to tell him some of the tests he should pursue, what aspects need further investigation. During the consultation he didn't ask about my symptoms but I told he anyway but gave up as he wasn't listening and wasn't taking any notes (and I thought audio recording required patient approval as in consultant telling you "I'm recording this consultation").

Ian

[Jdsk]

... (and I thought audio recording required patient approval as in consultant telling you "I'm recording this consultation").

Specific consent is required for this.

GMC "Making and using visual and audio recordings of patients":
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/document ... D011DB06FE

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

... (and I thought audio recording required patient approval as in consultant telling you "I'm recording this consultation").

Specific consent is required for this.

GMC "Making and using visual and audio recordings of patients":
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/document ... D011DB06FE

Jonathan

Many thanks. I assumed medical people would have to notify you or ask permission (but I didn't know). I certainly didn't record (didn't ask, didn't covertly record). My wondering was that he was not taking any notes when I decided to tell him about my symptoms.

Ian

[al_yrpal]

Do what I did in the end.

Write down a timeline
Start recording the outcome of each consultation
Just add to it each time you see someone

When its clear that nothing is happening, write that into the timeline.

If you are disatisfied write that in too

They hate monitoring and in your face detailed evidence. It will force them to act

Al

[Jdsk]

As someone said you probably won't win but just satisfy yourself by telling the underperforming and probably overpaid miscreant exactly what you think of him.

I've watched in detail the progress of many complaints, several hundred serious untoward incidents, some litigation and several enquiries and seen all of the the internal working papers and the reports.

There is some good advice in this thread above.

But I wouldn't advise any patient and/ or relative who has suffered to follow the advice quoted in the extracts
above. Use all of the processes available including PALS, official complaints, legal remedies, publicity and support groups. But trying to win very rarely helps anybody. Mediation is better for the patient and/ or relatives. And confrontational approaches are very destructive to the healthcare professionals and can end careers regardless of the outcome.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

Do what I did in the end.

Write down a timeline
Start recording the outcome of each consultation
Just add to it each time you see someone

When its clear that nothing is happening, write that into the timeline.

If you are disatisfied write that in too

They hate monitoring and in your face detailed evidence. It will force them to act

Al

Thanks, though I've actually been doing that already (only so I can look back in case I forget) so e.g. early Aug 20 consultant wrote to GP "best way forward would be to organise MRI and vestibular testing ... so that I can organise that" yet by Jan 21 consultant had made no vestibular function test referral. I do seek out copies of test results and letters to keep my own record on the basis it's my health and I have to take the responsibility to keep myself informed about it.

Ian

[Psamathe]

As someone said you probably won't win but just satisfy yourself by telling the underperforming and probably overpaid miscreant exactly what you think of him.

I've watched in detail the progress of many complaints, several hundred serious untoward incidents, some litigation and several enquiries and seen all of the the internal working papers and the reports.

There is some good advice in this thread above.

But I wouldn't advise any patient and/ or relative who has suffered to follow the advice quoted in the extracts above. Use all of the processes available including PALS, official complaints, legal remedies, publicity and support groups. But trying to win very rarely helps anybody. Mediation is better for the patient and/ or relatives. And confrontational approaches are very destructive to the healthcare professionals and can end careers regardless of the outcome.

Jonathan

I would be more than happy if there was some way for somebody to have an un-official chat with the consultant and for him to start doing things. I accept that it's not for me to dictate what tests must be done, etc. and that I'm not the only patient demanding NHS resources but it's certainly life impacting, chronic (12+ months since 1st NHS referral) and been an ongoing deterioration for longer that time. From the tests the private consultations have carried out I am aware that there is information the NHS guy should have asked for to investigate treatable and serious conditions.

As you say confrontational isn't going to help me get the treatment and hence my wondering if formal official complaints is the best way for things to turn round. When I chatted to PALS about the very long delays they offered to informally call the department to see what was going on and why so I'm wondering if that approach might be best. But then I've lost confidence in the consultant (if he suggested anything invasive of chemical I'd just not trust him). And GP might be able to advice but I suspect they might be constrained by a code of contact about what they can and cannot advice and all they could actually do is write a letter to the consultant which could be seen an confrontational. Pretty well anything could be taken as questioning his decision.

Thanks
Ian
Edited: To reflect edits Jonathan made to quotes in his post I was responding to.

[Jdsk]

I'd recommend talking to PALS again.

And making an official complaint. (Happy to advise on this.)

And talking to your GP. There isn't a code of conduct or anything similar that acts against your interests.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Edited: To reflect edits Jonathan made to quotes in his post I was responding to.

Thank you.

Jonathan

[mjr]

And talking to your GP. There isn't a code of conduct or anything similar that acts against your interests.

Indeed. You are more likely to come up against the limits of a general practitioner's training, experience or prescribing agreements than they have any problem with acting against a consultant that is not working for you.

And these days, GPs hold some of the purse strings. If you're not happy with the care they're buying for you, then they deserve to know. They may know other sellers that might work, or something.

[Oldjohnw]

In a former life prison health was a significant issue (still is). I used to refer people with considerable success to PALS. They are an advocacy group so you will still do the work but they are real experts and will provide great help. As soon as PALS is referenced you will find there will be no brush off.

[martinn]

I spent some time wondering if i could add to this thread.
I work for the NHS, and have investigated a number of complaints over the years.
If you are worried about getting a second opinion, i would say dont be. Getting Consultant to agree on anything is like herding cats.... The other Consultant ypu may speak to, although technically more junior will have their owns views and ways of working, not influenced by the more senior one.
The Consultant may just have an poor bed side manner, but be technically very good.( Unlikely from your description)
If you complain regarding their manner, and your experience, this may be the complaint that breaks the camels back so to speak.
I agree with thirdcrank, be very clear what you are unhappy with.
If you haven't done already, there is normally guidelines ( but they are only guidelines) for testing for some conditions, which you maybe able to access. The NHS website might be a place to start. My area of specialization takes its lead from the major European journal.
With booking diagnostic tests, some hospitals ask the GP to request them, and during covid, many diagnostic units were not accepting any requests. So the request may have been sent, but sent back. Once requests were accepted again all non urgent requests were put on hold, by non urgent read life threatening.
If you are finding the consultant at the private hospital good, why dont you find out which NHS hospital they work for and ask your GP to write to that one. ( Unless you live in London, i would say that all private consultant have an NHS practice)
Regards
Martin

[Paulatic]

I’m no expert in health at all as thankfully I’ve kept good health so far.
My observations of private health care, based on two in-laws who had it as a perk of their jobs, is they are always very keen to do tests. Whether they were necessary or not I can’t say and I know for certain they wouldn’t have had them done on NHS. Certainly NHS is more of let’s leave it and see if it goes away or how it develops strategy.
What is certain though is they can charge for each and every one of those tests. What is also certain, by my observations, is those tests didn’t magically give them good health either.
In my local weekly squeak recently a letter from an anonymous health professional of 20 yrs asking what have our GP's been doing the last 12 months? They seem difficult to get to see, they don’t ring back and nobody sees them anywhere. The letter writer felt they had been giving out 'holding the fort' type messages for too long and patients were becoming increasingly persistent in wanting to see an actual doctor.
They are certainly challenging times just now.