Cycling in Ketosis

Nessie23
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Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

No, not a Greek island but attempting to refuel the body from fat reserves as opposed to glycogen stores.
There have been a few mentions of Keto on other threads so looking for some general advice......
Bit of background: I got back into cycling last year during lockdown/furlough and managed to lose 2 stones in weight thru lots of cycling and sensible eating. Over Xmas and up to end Jan my cycling reduced massively and my weight crept up by about 1 stone. Since Feb i have increased the cycling and lots of walking but the weight has remained stubbornly stable at 100 Kg. I have decided to try Keto to kick start weight loss and keep cycling. I have dabbled with Keto before and it was successful BUT for me it is very hard to Maintain for more than a few weeks.
I started carb lowering from last Mon and entered Ketosis on Fri (according to Keto-stix!). Transition was no problem just a fuzzy head and lethargy for 2 days. Went for 25mile cycle on Sat and no noticeable difference. Went out again on Sun, perfect conditions, warm and virtually no wind and i really struggled. Legs felt heavy, lacked energy and really struggled up hills. Was planning 30-40 mile ride but returned home after 22.....exhausted. I usually aim for avg speed to be min 15mph but only achieved 13mph in perfect conditions.
I believe it is too early in my Keto journey to draw any meaningful conclusions (eg, may be other reason for poor performance) just wondering what other peoples ‘cycling in Keto’ experiences are.
I will persevere but weather is lousy today so not out but still feeling lethargic.
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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

The only venture into this was doing the Atkins Diet about 15 or 16 years ago.I just couldn't find the energy to ride at anything than a pootle at all.I lost a lot of weight quickly but the drawback was practically zero energy.I also put the weight back on when I re-introduced carbs.I gave up after a couple of months.
I've not really looked into the modern take on Ketosis.
There are better ways to lose and maintain weight loss!The quick-fix approach usually results in regaining weight when stopped.
I started using the Slimming World ethos in 2017.I was 105kg/16.5st at 5'6"!!!
I lost 19kg/3st in just under a year without really 'dieting'.Four years on and I'm 87kg/13.7st simply by following the basics of SW.
No processed food,everything made from scratch.No cooking oils where possible(I use Frylight) but for certain foods the absolute minimum.In short I/we just did the old 'changing the way we prepare and eat'food.The results are not as quick but it does work and it's easy to maintain!
IMHO long term change as opposed to dieting is the way.
Keep up the cycling and walking!
Last edited by Ride-sleep-repeat on 12 May 2021, 10:03am, edited 1 time in total.
Nessie23
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

Appreciate the response RSR. That was some inspiring weight loss and very impressive that it has stayed off...the ultimate test.
I recognise the risks of a 'quick-fix' and dangers of putting weight back on when coming off Keto. However, i will persevere a bit longer.
I have been tracking my weight over last few years and there is a pattern whereby I put on weight from Jan-Apr but manage to shed weight from May to Sept and miraculously hold steady over Xmas. This is clearly linked to my activity levels. I used to be a semi-pro footballer so very active over winter months and cycled during summer and i could 'almost' eat what i wanted and not worry about weight gain. However, now 55 with sedatory job and 4 stone has crept onto me over last 20 years. I am obviously not tailoring my food consumption to my relatively inactive winter months.
I am confident that if I can overcome the Keto lethargy I will steadily lose weight over next few months then my challenge will be to adjust when i come off Keto.
This week I have lost 3lb (probably fluid) but it is a positive motivational first step and stayed in ketosis for full week.
I am still keen to learn from other Keto practitioners if the lethargy will pass and what they use, if anything, for snacks when riding 1-2 hours. I used to carry a muesli bar but have decided there is no such thing as a comparable Keto snack and a lump of cheese or handful of nuts is not so appealing.
Also finding that Keto is not easy to integrate into family meal times when my other family members have no weight issues and all eat a balanced healthy diet with no exclusion of food groups. I suspect that BBQ season may help in this regard.
mattheus
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by mattheus »

Nessie23 wrote: 4 May 2021, 6:00pm ... and what they use, if anything, for snacks when riding 1-2 hours. I used to carry a muesli bar but have decided there is no such thing as a comparable Keto snack and a lump of cheese or handful of nuts is not so appealing.
Not so appealing? As in: you don't like cheese or nuts??

Well sorry buddy, but if you're off the carbs you are going to struggle to get calories from many other (nice) sources!

I'm more of a lowish-carb rider, never reached ketosis; but I happily do very long rides (i.e. 20-40hours) on nuts, cheese, beans, meat (lean or not) etc.

But I'd also point out that for 2 hours your body should be able to run without any extra fuel intake; so maybe you haven't adapted enough to *exercise* on low glycogen? (didn't read your posts in detail, sorry!)
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TrevA
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by TrevA »

I did have some success a couple of year’s ago following the. Fast 800 diet, which restricts your calorie intake to 800 calories a day and forces your body into Ketosis. I list almost 3 stone in 10 weeks, but eventually got bored with the rather restricted diet and went back to eating normally. I found that once adapted I could easily do 45-50 mile rides with just water and a cup of tea at the cafe stop. I’d either have nothing in the morning or a Slim fast shake. My evening meal was a salad.

I’ve have since put half of that weight back on, but have recently been following a lower carb diet again - no pasta, rice or potatoes and I’ve started making my own low carb bread using almond flour, eggs and baking powder. I’ve started following a UK based YouTube channel that had good Keto recipes using UK based ingredients. It’s called Keto Fitness Club.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Nessie23
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

mattheus wrote: 6 May 2021, 12:19pm Not so appealing? As in: you don't like cheese or

Well sorry buddy, but if you're off the carbs you are going to struggle to get calories from many other (nice) sources!
No, I love cheese and nuts just can’t (yet) imagine eating them in place of a sugary carb snack when needing an energy boost. I agree with your other comment that I should be able to go 2hrs without a snack and I believe I am getting there.
Nessie23
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

TrevA wrote: 6 May 2021, 9:00pm I did have some success a couple of year’s ago following the. Fast 800 diet, which restricts your calorie intake to 800 calories a day and forces your body into Ketosis. I list almost 3 stone in 10 weeks, but eventually got bored with the rather restricted diet and went back to eating normally. I found that once adapted I could easily do 45-50 mile rides with just water and a cup of tea at the cafe stop. I’d either have nothing in the morning or a Slim fast shake. My evening meal was a salad.
I have also tried the 5:2 (also by Dr Michael Moseley I believe) with some success. My plan is to try some form of fasting if I find my weight loss starts to plateau/flat line. So far my Keto progress is improving. I am staying in ketosis relatively comfortably and played an hour of 5-aside footie with no apparent loss in energy/performance levels and completed 2 other cycle rides and felt much better. First I did 45 min interval training back and forth over a local hill and recorded a Strava PR. Yesterday, I did 22 miles in very windy conditions and almost managed to maintain avg of 15mph and felt good at the end. I have concluded I am feeling better, as now fully keto adapted. Hopefully I will get a longer cycle over the weekend....weather permitting.
jo' bo
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by jo' bo »

Nessie23 wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:04pm No, not a Greek island but attempting to refuel the body from fat reserves as opposed to glycogen stores.
There have been a few mentions of Keto on other threads so looking for some general advice......
Bit of background: I got back into cycling last year during lockdown/furlough and managed to lose 2 stones in weight thru lots of cycling and sensible eating. Over Xmas and up to end Jan my cycling reduced massively and my weight crept up by about 1 stone. Since Feb i have increased the cycling and lots of walking but the weight has remained stubbornly stable at 100 Kg. I have decided to try Keto to kick start weight loss and keep cycling. I have dabbled with Keto before and it was successful BUT for me it is very hard to Maintain for more than a few weeks.
I started carb lowering from last Mon and entered Ketosis on Fri (according to Keto-stix!). Transition was no problem just a fuzzy head and lethargy for 2 days. Went for 25mile cycle on Sat and no noticeable difference. Went out again on Sun, perfect conditions, warm and virtually no wind and i really struggled. Legs felt heavy, lacked energy and really struggled up hills. Was planning 30-40 mile ride but returned home after 22.....exhausted. I usually aim for avg speed to be min 15mph but only achieved 13mph in perfect conditions.
I believe it is too early in my Keto journey to draw any meaningful conclusions (eg, may be other reason for poor performance) just wondering what other peoples ‘cycling in Keto’ experiences are.
I will persevere but weather is lousy today so not out but still feeling lethargic.
I have never done keto, in fact I've never been a weight loss diet, but I have fat friends who have and to a large extent it seemed to be successful as they did indeed loose weight( quite a lot of weight) it also seemed to make them ill both physically and mentally( well extremly bad tempered) , carbs are essential for you well being, but short term pain and all that

Two observation really, one they ballooned back up not long after as they reverted to the same lifestyle choices and then back to keto then back to fatness, . Some where in there you have to find the,discipline to change or youl be back here again in a few months

On it's own never mind tied to vigorous exercise it tends to burn lean muscle as well or even in preference to fat, so some of the weight loss you measure will likely be the depletion of your skeletal muscles, never a good look

Are you really sure its not worth just doing the cycling and wait for nature to take its course, coz it most probably will
Nessie23
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

Thanks for your response Jo’bo.
I agree with much of what you say and I am sure you will agree that exercise/weight control is a personal thing as we are all individuals. Last year while furloughed for 3 months I lost weight, the sensible way, by eating sensibly and lots of cycling. However, I am now back to long office hours and can’t get the same miles in. Hence trying keto for a kick start. I am aware of the yo-yo risk when I eventually stop keto. However, so far I am managing to remain in keto relatively easily and my initial concerns about feeling lethargic on the bike have passed (but still not completed a longer, 2hr plus ride yet) but so far so good.
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TrevA
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by TrevA »

The thing with Keto is that it can be a lifestyle rather than a diet, so it can be sustainable in the longer term. You can cut out rice, potatoes, pasta and bread and in many cases replace them with Keto-friendly alternatives, such as cauli-rice, fathead pizza dough, you can make bread using nut, seed or coconut flour. Im currently experimenting with this. Made a loaf of bread on Monday with ground up sunflower seeds, it turned out quite well, though it didn’t rise very much. I’ve also made bread using almond flour and have a recipe for coconut flour bread.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Nessie23
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Nessie23 »

Hi TrevA, I get the lifestyle not a diet thing. Not sure I will stick to full keto long term but plan to drastically reduce the sugar and beige carbs. I am 4 wks in and finding it surprisingly easy and have lost over 3kg. I have completed three x 3-hour cycles with only water and my initial concerns about lack of energy have disappeared. Not tried a significant hill yet but suspect I will be ok.
I have dipped into the ‘ketoclub’ blog and found it useful. I will try the fathead pizza but so far not really craving the bread carbs. The thing I miss is fruit but I do have a few rasps & blueberries.
One very positive benefit appears to be better recovery post hard exercise. I played my weekly 5-aside footie last night and usually suffer from aches and pains the next day but this morning I feel much fresher which really helps with the motivation to keep going.
LeBikiekat
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by LeBikiekat »

Hey there

I have not read the other replies but my take on this is:
keto takes months to adapt. Assuming the following:
- fat % of daily intake is over 70
- protein is relatively low
-carbs is 10% or lower

This can be measured via food tracking apps. I use Nutracheck because the data is accurate as opposed to not be accurate because not inputted by the app developers.

It is interesting to read about how people approach keto but from what you say it is more difficult to estimate what exactly might have been your proportions intake and of what food groups.
The plummet in energy maybe a result of the reaction your metabolism has when you restrict carbs to that extent appears to be (other things being equal) normal.
The brain fog, little energy etc.. in theory, would subside when your metabolism switches energy systems.
The energy provided from beta-oxidation does yield a considerably higher amount of ATP (I think off the top of my head you can have 140 molecues of ATP) but the time it takes to go through is way longer and is effort dependant.

In other words, if you stay within an aerobic low-end endurance effort then the energy system should be beta-oxidation.
If you try to exercise at higher intensities it will be very difficult and with a considerably higher strain on your heart.
You mention keto strips. What was the strip reading?
Had it been reading consistently over days or was it your first reading? How often do you measure that?
There are other types of monitors around but they are way pricier (for example there are breath testers and a patch with a scanning machine called Libre).

There maybe other reasons for low energy. If you decide that keto is for you you will need to stick to it for months and start slow. Progressively reduce the macronutrients to keto ranges. Keep a diary of how the foods you eat impact on your daily energy level, sleep and mood and how keto affects your gastrointestinal health. Especially this.

It is possible to follow both a meat-based and saturated fat animal-based keto or a vegan keto diet.
Interestingly a study was carried out on Marines soldiers in the US that were put on a vegan diet with avocado as a fat source to substitute animal protein and saturated animal fat.
Then blood samples were collected and found that the vegan diet with avocadoes does not make blood plasma cloudy.
Whereas the standard animal protein / fat diet does.
I will add to this that there are other biological mechanisms that control how cholesterol is disposed of and for example if there are concerns with some of those mechanisms such as bile ducts cholesterol is not disposed of as it should. So one has to be careful not to make a direct and only correlation between eating animal fat and high cholesterol levels.

Also in terms of training progressively increase mileage although on a standard carb diet you might have been able to go twice as far now your energy systems are different or are potentially different so if I was you ( and I did follow a strict keto diet for over a year years ago) I would start from small mileage but consistent mileage for the first few weeks at low % of VO2 or 65% of MHR cadence 70-85 gears on the small chain rink middle gear mainly flat or false flats, just for an example.
It's like slowly adjusting your body to operate in a very different way ..

Also bear in mind that with a very low fiber diet estrogen is not disposed of either and keto des put stress on the adrenal glands.
Having said if you want to have a go try but keep an open mind about whether it si right for you or not.

Make sure your electrolyte levels are on point and if you can or are in a position to do lab tests it's good to know what is going on. Cortisol may rise as well as a result.
MelW
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by MelW »

Nessie23 wrote: 11 May 2021, 10:10am Thanks for your response Jo’bo.
I agree with much of what you say and I am sure you will agree that exercise/weight control is a personal thing as we are all individuals. Last year while furloughed for 3 months I lost weight, the sensible way, by eating sensibly and lots of cycling. However, I am now back to long office hours and can’t get the same miles in. Hence trying keto for a kick start. I am aware of the yo-yo risk when I eventually stop keto. However, so far I am managing to remain in keto relatively easily and my initial concerns about feeling lethargic on the bike have passed (but still not completed a longer, 2hr plus ride yet) but so far so good.
This is my first post here so be kind.

I struggled with my weight for many years hating my body shape. Then about 4 years ago I heard about the Keto diet. It has been really liberating. For me it has never been about a short term thing, a few weeks or even a few months, but a whole lifestyle change. I lost so so much weight. I'll not say as I was HEAVY, but now I am pretty much normal for my age and height. It was total mindset change about what I put in my mouth and how I treat my body. For me Keto is eating clean natural food, cutting out as much sugar as possible and carbs and definitely processed foods which are full of carbs, salt, preservatives and stabilisers and other nasties. For me there was and had been no return or gaining weight as I now feel great and like my body so much more. I just feel sad that for all those years I was ignorant and in denial about what I was really eating. I must have been pre diabetic or even diabetic as I would suffer huge food cravings and sugar cravings. This is in my dark past. I now eat protein - meat, fish, oily fish, eggs, oh I Iove eggs! lots of healthy green veg, salads, tomatoes, peppers, celery, cucumber, carrots, avocados, beetroot, love beetroot, nuts, mushrooms to name a few. I basically cook everything I eat from scratch so I KNOW what is going in my mouth. I don't eat shop bought pies, biscuits, cakes, crisps, sauces, ready meals basically junk food any more. Neither do I eat much dairy accept a little bit of cheddar say in salads or very occasionally after a nice meal. I keep up with vitamin C from fruit by having a freshly squeezed lemon with a small teaspoon of organic honey, cinnamon, ginger and nutmeg most days and now I feel absolutely great. I wouldn't go back to my old ways of binging on sugar and carbs as it is not how I want to live any more. I have so much more energy now, greater stamina and strength plus I am no longer massively over weight. I think a lot more clearly. I can recommend it to everyone. So for me the Keto diet has been a massive lifestyle change for the better. I don't count calories with it, never have done. All I do is keep to the main principles of cutting out sugar and eating as few carbs as possible. Occasionally when I am out with family or friends I may eat a pizza or have a piece of cake to avoid causing offence but I don't over eat I have just that so once in a while it doesn't do any harm and I can easily live without sweet sugary things. For me eating eggs again was a massive game changer. So much rubbish has been written about eggs in recent years that is just false. They have pretty much all the nutrients you need and do not make your blood sugar spike. Eating enough protein is so important when cycling or exercising as you need to keep your body in good conditions to repair tired and damaged tissue plus eating protein makes you feel full as it satiates you. Also I hardly ever get ill any more as I guess my immune system is so much stronger than it used to be.
I hope this helps people who are still struggling with losing weight and wanting to lead a much more healthy lifestyle. Even if you are not over weight it is a much healthier nutritional lifestyle.
Jdsk
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Jdsk »

LeBikiekat wrote: 3 Sep 2021, 7:01pmThe energy provided from beta-oxidation does yield a considerably higher amount of ATP (I think off the top of my head you can have 140 molecues of ATP) but the time it takes to go through is way longer and is effort dependant.
Considerably higher amount of ATP than what?

The number of molecules of ATP per what? With beta oxidation that's totally dependent on the chain length of the fat being metabolised.
LeBikiekat wrote: 3 Sep 2021, 7:01pm Interestingly a study was carried out on Marines soldiers in the US that were put on a vegan diet with avocado as a fat source to substitute animal protein and saturated animal fat.
Then blood samples were collected and found that the vegan diet with avocadoes does not make blood plasma cloudy.
Whereas the standard animal protein / fat diet does.
Which study is that, please?
LeBikiekat wrote: 3 Sep 2021, 7:01pm Also bear in mind that with a very low fiber diet estrogen is not disposed of...
Have you got a source for that, please?
LeBikiekat wrote: 3 Sep 2021, 7:01pm ...and keto des put stress on the adrenal glands.
...
Cortisol may rise as well as a result.
Have you got a source for that, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Cycling in Ketosis

Post by Jdsk »

MelW wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 6:05pmThis is my first post here so be kind.
Welcome.

Jonathan
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