Long Covid - just in case you were getting complacent

[rmurphy195]

It isn't getting much publicity, but long covid - and its effects, which can sometimes be permanent (One relative, an early victim of Covid, has had heart damage as a result which requires lifetime medication), are worth looking up and comparing, say, with some of the impacts of MS.

I don't want to scare anyone, but look it up and bear it in mind next time you see someone on the news whingeing about not being able to go to a red-listed country on holiday, or are missing going to see their favourite team play.

[PH]

Yes, I heard of a club rider I hadn't seen in over a year, mid 50's, I've never seen him as anything other than a strong rider and apparently after having Covid last May (Serious enough to be concerned but not hospitalised) they're unable to ride more than ten miles and that doesn't seem to be improving. I don't know what the numbers are, but it isn't being talked about much.

[Mike Sales]

I am not getting complacent. I will certainly not take the next lurch of the shopping trolley as an accurate guide to safe behaviour.

[Psamathe]

I still see it as a big risk and often think the NHS hospital numbers are far from the whole story. Politicians trying to keep hospital numbers manageable is a poor way to control things and seems to miss things like long-Covid, impacts on other care (e.g. cancer treatments, heart problems, etc.)

And the mantra that one hears so often about how Covid is not so serious for younger people, misses that younger people seem quite at risk (somebody, Jonathan? posted a graph of long Covid incidence by age goup and the eldest age groups were not the highest risk - from emory).

Ian

[axel_knutt]

worth looking up and comparing

It's also worth considering that all the people who have been complaining of CFS for decades, and getting fobbed off, might have exactly the same condition, but caused by a different virus.

[Psamathe]

worth looking up and comparing

It's also worth considering that all the people who have been complaining of CFS for decades, and getting fobbed off, might have exactly the same condition, but caused by a different virus.

My non-medical impression is that not a great deal is known about Post Viral Fatigue, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and long-Covid. I don't know if long-Covid is different because there are aspects of long term heart/circulatory damage and pulmonary damage - but does that mean it's different or just that the virus that "kick it off" is attacking different parts of the body?

With my own personal "challenges" I've been somewhat disappointed by the number of serious medical conditions we have no real treatment for yet can have quite debilitating impacts - maybe caused by the same commercial issues resulting in no new antibiotics (not enough $$$$$). Or maybe I have pre-conceived ideas about shortcomings of the way be develop pharmaceuticals for maximum profitability rather than to meet the needs of humanity.

(But I claim no expertise nor medical training)
Ian

[rmurphy195]

I still see it as a big risk and often think the NHS hospital numbers are far from the whole story. Politicians trying to keep hospital numbers manageable is a poor way to control things and seems to miss things like long-Covid, impacts on other care (e.g. cancer treatments, heart problems, etc.)

And the mantra that one hears so often about how Covid is not so serious for younger people, misses that younger people seem quite at risk (somebody, Jonathan? posted a graph of long Covid incidence by age goup and the eldest age groups were not the highest risk - from emory).

Ian

They probably die instead, or the long covid is disguised in the general decline of health in older people.

Its worth noting that long covid isn't necessarily a long period of recovery. I know of a case where the victim had it quite mildly very early on (at the start of the epidemic), recovered, then 2-3 months later started having problems one of which (effect on the heart) is now a lifetime issue as far as we know. It was the hospital that linked it to her earlier Covid infection based on what they were beginning to see last Summer.

We won't know for years yet what the true impact on people's health might be but in the meantime you can't get away from the fact that if you don't catch it, you won't end up in hospital with it, you won't die from it, and you won't suffer any long-term ill effects from it.

As far as publicity is concerned the media has not given long-covid much attention apart from the sad case of CORRECTION 9/6/21: with apologies, Kate Garroway's husband, the media of course being more concerned with whether you can go on holiday abroad, or attend a football match in person, which public figure slipped-up this week or speculating on what might or might not happen on 21st June.

The media should give long covid more publicity.

[gbnz]

I still see it as a big risk and often think the NHS hospital numbers are far from the whole story.

+ 1. Have to admit I've always been reasonably relaxed about Covid, but have dealt with it as one should with a highly communicable disease. Thus quite happy to have disapproving glances from police officers during the first lockdown, as they saw me out for a run, walk, bike ride on the same day, in deserted countryside, by myself, my being of no harm to anyone.

But two months prior to the November lockdown, I immediately ceased going into town or using the buses. It was clear prior to figures being released, that there'd be a huge surge in infections, with all these people who'd been hiding away during lockdown, now out and about, without taking the slightest precaution.

Precisely the same situation now, where it's been obvious for 2-3 weeks there'll be a huge increase in infections regionally. I do find it bizarre that having been quite happy to run, walk, cycle whatever during the lockdowns, there being no risk to anyone in a human being alone in the countryside, I'm now staying at home And guess what? A 38 fold increase in regional infections in the space of two weeks.

Why do some people require the authorities telling them to do anything, prior to doing anything

[simonineaston]

and even more unfathomable, why do some people resolutely refuse to respond to requests to modify their behaviour in spite of there being a ton of info. to back up that request... search me - anyway, it will be the end of us all.

[Psamathe]

and even more unfathomable, why do some people resolutely refuse to respond to requests to modify their behaviour in spite of there being a ton of info. to back up that request... search me - anyway, it will be the end of us all. :roll:

I've put it down to selfishness (maybe I'm being unfair).

But the absolute requirement for e.g. browsing city centre Primark t-shirts you don't need or foreign travel or even holidays makes you wonder how Homo sapiens ever evolved to be here today. How did Brits manage these absolutely essential 1 week holiday in Spain before motorised transport (how many months to walk London to Costa del Sol?).

I love travel (live for it) though I'm not planning anything for the moment and surviving. Is there a sub-species that need not only food & water but Primark visits as well?

Ian

[mattheus]

It's also worth considering that all the people who have been complaining of CFS for decades, and getting fobbed off, might have exactly the same condition, but caused by a different virus.

Yes, this seems quite feasible at the moment. i await further research before ruling anything out ...

[gbnz]

and even more unfathomable, why do some people resolutely refuse to respond to requests to modify their behaviour in spite of there being a ton of info. to back up that request... search me - anyway, it will be the end of us all.

Well, it'll take another few weeks for another " minor lockdown" to be announced. Given todays regional figures I'll definately be giving the bues & shops a miss now, local figures today being higher than during both main lockdowns (Nb. And I may have had both vaccine shots, but it's not 100% effective)

It's funny to think all those who can't think will continue with "normal" life now, until the new rules are introduced (Nb. When no doubt I'll be happily cycling in deserted countryside, perfectly safely, while they all hide away indoors )

[Vorpal]

I know 2 people suffering from long covid, both in their 50s. One of them has nearly resumed normal life, now, but he had covid early on before last summer. He still tires more easily than he used to, but otherwise is basically back to normal. His symptoms were lingering pain & weakness, abdominal discomfort, shakiness (palsy) and episodes of difficulty with other motor control functions. He couldn't work at all for several months, and only worked part time for several months after that.

The other person I know has still not recovered. I don't know any details about his symptoms, but he used to be super fit, rock climber, hill walker, cyclist, kayaker, etc. and some days he can't even get out of bed still, more than a year after covid.

worth looking up and comparing

It's also worth considering that all the people who have been complaining of CFS for decades, and getting fobbed off, might have exactly the same condition, but caused by a different virus.

Post viral fatigue syndrome is a known thing. It was replaced by the ME /CFS diagnosis because not everyone had an obvious viral infection preceding it https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Postviral_fatigue_syndrome

Of Western countries, the UK is, as far as I know, the only one that treats it as psychosomatic, with cognitive behaviour therapy & graded exercise, the first of which seems to be convincing people it's in their head, and the latter of which is known by other countries to make symptoms worse.

Even outside the UK, there are problems with educating medical practitioners and getting them to take it seriously. https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/about/index.html

[simonineaston]

I'm so sorry to learn of folks who're suffering from this long Covid... it sounds really distressing. It really puts into perspective the irresponsibility of the way a minority can behave.

[mjr]

and even more unfathomable, why do some people resolutely refuse to respond to requests to modify their behaviour in spite of there being a ton of info. to back up that request... search me - anyway, it will be the end of us all.

I've put it down to selfishness (maybe I'm being unfair).

Partly to both, but it a selfishness encouraged by the current government (vote for us to save money by cutting services and support to encourage personal responsibility, is basically the usual Tory offer) combined with their "people have had enough of experts" dogma.

So it is absurd for the likes of Jenrick to appear on the BBC this morning urging self-responsibility in reaction to expert advice. The government should know that probably won't work on the majority of the substantial minority that voted for them and legislate to protect the country from their supporters.

How did Brits manage these absolutely essential 1 week holiday in Spain before motorised transport (how many months to walk London to Costa del Sol?).

To be a pilgrim!