Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Oldjohnw
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Oldjohnw »

I do all of the above. I am getting more convinced that the problem is a temporary blip following a complex house move which was both stressful (for a normally laid back person) and caused us to eat food we would normally avoid - takeaways, bought cakes, biscuits, pizza, all stuff we wouldn’t normally have.
John
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Audax67
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Audax67 »

Don't sweat it. Diabetes is very, very slow to act. As I said above, my diagnosis was probably 10 years after I developed the disease, and the first real ill-effects appeared 18 years after diagnosis and were fixed with a stent. That in turn was 13 years ago: I'm still riding up decent hills without an eBike, my eyes are still devoid of retinopathy and everything else works. I'm slower on the bike and don't ride as far as I used to, but I can still do 8 to 10 hours including an hour for lunch at halfway and a couple of cake/coffee stops.

Just go on as usual and have the occasional blood test. And even if you do turn out to be diabetic, remember that when you're away on a ride you can eat virtually anything you like, since the excess sugar will be burnt off in no time.
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Traction_man
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Traction_man »

I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic just before the pandemic struck.

I spent 8 weeks in early-2020 following the The Fast 800 diet by Michael Mosley (see https://thebloodsugardiet.com/)--and I lost about a stone and a half in weight fairly quickly, and it has stayed off more or less since.

I picked up my exercise too, especially cycling, which I also found to be easier, carrying less weight.

My last blood test at the GP (4 weeks ago) showed I am now no longer pre-diabetic.

In a nutshell I cut out beer, pasta and rice, and still avoid these, reducing also bread and potatoes, so cutting the carbs seemed to do the trick.

Good luck.

all the best,

Keith
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TrevA
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by TrevA »

As others have said, you should cut down on your carbs. This means giving up bread and pasta - even the brown, whole meal varieties. They still turn to glucose (albeit slightly more slowly than white varieties) and will still spike your blood sugar. Cauliflower rice is a good alternative to rice, if you can get along with the taste. Spiralized vegetables such courgette are an alternative to pasta. You can make lo-carb bread using ground almonds and/or coconut flour. You can also make something called “cloud bread” using egg whites and cream cheese. Monitor your carbs and try to keep them below 50g per day.

Diet Doctor has already been mentioned, but I’ve found a British based site called Keto Fitness Club which has some good lo-carb recipes, with UK measures and ingredients (a lot of low carb info on the web is from American based sites, which measure everything in cups and use ingredients we can’t get easily in this country).

https://www.ketofitnessclub.com/

Don’t worry too much about eating high fat foods, such as cheese or eggs. These foods don’t cause your blood sugar to spike and won’t necessarily increase the bad cholesterol in your blood:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fa ... holesterol

I’ve been a Type 2 diabetic for about 5 years but successfully control my blood sugar by making changes to my diet.
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Audax67
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Audax67 »

Oldjohnw wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 6:33pm I do all of the above. I am getting more convinced that the problem is a temporary blip following a complex house move which was both stressful (for a normally laid back person) and caused us to eat food we would normally avoid - takeaways, bought cakes, biscuits, pizza, all stuff we wouldn’t normally have.
As I said above, don't worry. Don't change anything. Once you're back to your normal routine things will almost certainly get back to normal, especially if you keep riding.

If you're already in your 70s and still only borderline you probably have around 10-15 years before anything untoward happens. I was acutely diabetic at diagnosis in 1991 and didn't have any serious side-effects until 2008; and those were fixed easily and effectively.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
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mjr
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by mjr »

RRSODL wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 5:37pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 7:57am I eat loads of veg, limited red meat, brown bread only, oatcakes, brown pasta (I can’t stand brown rice).
There is your problem controling your glucose levels. Cut down carbohydrates, eat your green leafy salads, adds more fat to your diet in the form of extra virgin olive oil, grass fed butter, oily fish like salmon, mackerel, olives, avocado.

Stress will rase your glucose levels, [...]
If your ratio of total cholesterol to LDL is below 3 then you are OK.
Total cholesterol and even LDL measurements from NHS tests are crude and not the whole story but it's not a bad rough rule.

People differ and adding fat will work for some people but others will find their body reacts by increasing cholesterol production. It's all about finding the right balance for oneself but current tests don't really help to do that. NHS tests are either crude or too expensive to do often, whereas home tests are even cruder.

On diet, I'd suggest adding leafy dark greens, pulses and handful of nuts (almonds, walnuts, cashews seem good), and try to switch from high salt oatcakes to porridge, especially if you can make it with high oatbran for the beta-glucan which seems to help lower cholesterol. I don't recall anyone suffering a downside from it except a few where it was fairly obvious ;)

Another problem with worrying about diet or frequent testing is that stress never seems to help, as several posts above correctly say.
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mjr
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by mjr »

TrevA wrote: 24 Oct 2021, 4:35pm As others have said, you should cut down on your carbs. [...]

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fa ... holesterol
Articles like that annoy me:
"For decades, people have avoided fat- and cholesterol-rich items, [...] While recent research has disproven this notion"

It isn't recent research, or not only recent, that showed that and avoiding cholesterol-rich foods hasn't been advised officially by NHS clinical experts for at least 30 years. Maybe quacks and throwbacks still did, much the same as some tell everyone to go low-carb despite the evidence saying it does not work for everyone, but do you want to rely on articles arguing with quacks? Aren't they themselves also quackery? Do you trust an article arguing against Aunt Sallys written by a nutritionist who has gone into "optimal wellness" and reviewed by a skin condition specialist with no involvement of anyone expert in blood chemistry or liver and kidney function?
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cotswolds
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by cotswolds »

Gearoidmuar wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 8:35am Low carb high fat.
What you are advised to do is all wrong. Look at Dietdoctor.com, a Swedish website in English. Let that be your guide.
What did I just have for breakfast. Tin of sardines in brine, drained, mixed with three eggs and 20g cheddar in an omelet. Bowl of microwaved Brussels sprouts. I won't be hungry for 6h or more after that.
I'd just like to second this as the way to go. I've never had a major problem with my weight but adopted this diet 3 years ago for other reasons. I've never so much thought of calories let alone counted them yet my BMI has come down from 25 to 21. I never go hungry. Lots of veg, fish, eggs, nuts and oil (coconut oil, it's the only oil you should cook with).

My blood tests are all good, but I'm worried I'll be told off if I get much thinner.

Never eat low fat versions of full fat things, they're horribly artificial.
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mjr
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by mjr »

cotswolds wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 5:39pm
Gearoidmuar wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 8:35am Low carb high fat.[...]
I'd just like to second this as the way to go. I've never had a major problem with my weight but adopted this diet 3 years ago for other reasons. I've never so much thought of calories let alone counted them yet my BMI has come down from 25 to 21. [...]
What effect did it have on your cholesterol and fasting blood glucose? I think those are more central to the concerns that started this topic.

I remain very sceptical that low-carb high-fat is useful to everyone. My blood tests did not respond well to changes in that direction. I'm glad if you've found something that works for you, though.
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Slowtwitch
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Slowtwitch »

Traction_man wrote: 20 Oct 2021, 1:47pm I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic just before the pandemic struck.

I spent 8 weeks in early-2020 following the The Fast 800 diet by Michael Mosley (see https://thebloodsugardiet.com/)--and I lost about a stone and a half in weight fairly quickly, and it has stayed off more or less since.
I was diagnosed pre diabetic about two years ago, frankly I had it coming. I was eating far too much for the level of exercise I was doing and drinking far too often beer and red wine. After roughly 5 years of this I reckon I must have put on about 4 stone. As a frequent reminder, it was a family photograph at Xmas which shocked me into action, even after the diagnosis (which I didn't really take seriously). I looked awful!

My local GP was a fan of Mosleys fast diet (fasting two non consecutive days on 800 cals per day, eating normally the other 5 days of the week) and with lots of encouragement I lost 2 stone in weight and my blood sugar level went almost back to 'normal'.

Every 3 months or so I repeat this regime, but only for two weeks at a time. Since, I've been able to regulate my weight, and blood sugar with no problems. My cholesterol and all the major markers of ill health, liver function, lung function ect are all back to normal. I've lost another 3 stone and a half and I can pretty much get into the denims I wore when I was 21, that's forty years ago! My weekly mileage I've increased steadily from 100 to 350 miles per week.

For anyone wishing to avoid the uncertain route of long term medication and quack diets /supplements I couldn't recommend it more. Granted the first two weeks are quite hard, but after that it becomes routine. My secret is to have a bag of carrots by the TV of an evening when the hunger pangs kick in!

My GP is of the opinion I have probably saved myself 20 years of debilitating, deteriorating health. Which cheers me and my family up no end.

Riding a Surly LHT and a Bianchi on the sunny days :)
cotswolds
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by cotswolds »

mjr wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 6:05pm
cotswolds wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 5:39pm
Gearoidmuar wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 8:35am Low carb high fat.[...]
I'd just like to second this as the way to go. I've never had a major problem with my weight but adopted this diet 3 years ago for other reasons. I've never so much thought of calories let alone counted them yet my BMI has come down from 25 to 21. [...]
What effect did it have on your cholesterol and fasting blood glucose? I think those are more central to the concerns that started this topic.

I remain very sceptical that low-carb high-fat is useful to everyone. My blood tests did not respond well to changes in that direction. I'm glad if you've found something that works for you, though.
Chholesterol down slightly, didn't discuss glucose. But everything I've read says pre-diabetic markers improve when you lose weight on a keto-type diet. My main point was that high fat foods are good not bad. I think very low carb. is less of an issue and medium complex carb. is OK for most people.

I was going to say something about low salt, but I think that's worth a separate topic.
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Traction_man
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Traction_man »

Slowtwitch wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 9:21am
Traction_man wrote: 20 Oct 2021, 1:47pm I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic just before the pandemic struck.

I spent 8 weeks in early-2020 following the The Fast 800 diet by Michael Mosley (see https://thebloodsugardiet.com/)--and I lost about a stone and a half in weight fairly quickly, and it has stayed off more or less since.
I was diagnosed pre diabetic about two years ago, frankly I had it coming. I was eating far too much for the level of exercise I was doing and drinking far too often beer and red wine. After roughly 5 years of this I reckon I must have put on about 4 stone. As a frequent reminder, it was a family photograph at Xmas which shocked me into action, even after the diagnosis (which I didn't really take seriously). I looked awful!

My local GP was a fan of Mosleys fast diet (fasting two non consecutive days on 800 cals per day, eating normally the other 5 days of the week) and with lots of encouragement I lost 2 stone in weight and my blood sugar level went almost back to 'normal'.

Every 3 months or so I repeat this regime, but only for two weeks at a time. Since, I've been able to regulate my weight, and blood sugar with no problems. My cholesterol and all the major markers of ill health, liver function, lung function ect are all back to normal. I've lost another 3 stone and a half and I can pretty much get into the denims I wore when I was 21, that's forty years ago! My weekly mileage I've increased steadily from 100 to 350 miles per week.

For anyone wishing to avoid the uncertain route of long term medication and quack diets /supplements I couldn't recommend it more. Granted the first two weeks are quite hard, but after that it becomes routine. My secret is to have a bag of carrots by the TV of an evening when the hunger pangs kick in!

My GP is of the opinion I have probably saved myself 20 years of debilitating, deteriorating health. Which cheers me and my family up no end.

Riding a Surly LHT and a Bianchi on the sunny days :)
That's a great story, well done, and like you my GP says I have gained years in life expectancy due to losing weight and improving blood-sugar and cholesterol, I want to be cycling for a while yet...
Slowtwitch
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Slowtwitch »

I don't expect to live to a great age (my genes are against me!) But the longer I can stave off serious illness, or avoid it altogether the happier I am. Without this intervention u would most definitely be looking at twenty
years of slow, but sure decline.
Jo May
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by Jo May »

Oldjohnw wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 7:57am I am one point below pre-diabetic ( I have been there before but pulled it back) and despite statins my cholesterol level has gone from 6.4 to 7.4. I could increase the statin dosage but don’t want to yet.


You have to reduce sugar. I don’t eat cake, biscuits and avoid processed foods anyway.

You have to reduce fat. I do eat cheese.

I eat loads of veg, limited red meat, brown bread only, oatcakes, brown pasta (I can’t stand brown rice).

You are told to get low fat. Which is, of course, in order to make it palatable, stuffed with sugar. I like Alpro but Mrs Ojw doesn’t. But I don’t want it every day and it goes off quickly and they don’t do smaller tubs.

What is a growing lad to do?

I am hoping it is a mere blip following a challenging house move involving some temporary bad habits and reduced exercise.
Pre-diabetic is a wake-up call. Low carb is the way many people have turned it round - see here https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/
There is masses of information for both T1 and T2 (and other types) of diabetes. I'm T2, controlled by diet and exercise.
The folk on that site have been there, done that (or are there, doing that!). Very friendly with lots of first-hand experience.
There is a growing catalogue of research that says low cholesterol is worse for you (particularly cardio-vascular) than high cholesterol. There's plenty about that on that link too. Also more information from, for example, https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/.

You've had a stressful time of it by the sound of things. Stress can seriously mess around with your readings including HbA1c.

Beware there is sugar lurking everywhere! Pasta and bread included. Above ground veg is less carby than root veg.

Best of luck
MelW
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Re: Pre-diabetic and raised cholesterol

Post by MelW »

mjr wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 10:55am
RRSODL wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 5:37pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 19 Oct 2021, 7:57am I eat loads of veg, limited red meat, brown bread only, oatcakes, brown pasta (I can’t stand brown rice).
There is your problem controling your glucose levels. Cut down carbohydrates, eat your green leafy salads, adds more fat to your diet in the form of extra virgin olive oil, grass fed butter, oily fish like salmon, mackerel, olives, avocado.

Stress will rase your glucose levels, [...]
If your ratio of total cholesterol to LDL is below 3 then you are OK.
Total cholesterol and even LDL measurements from NHS tests are crude and not the whole story but it's not a bad rough rule.

People differ and adding fat will work for some people but others will find their body reacts by increasing cholesterol production. It's all about finding the right balance for oneself but current tests don't really help to do that. NHS tests are either crude or too expensive to do often, whereas home tests are even cruder.

On diet, I'd suggest adding leafy dark greens, pulses and handful of nuts (almonds, walnuts, cashews seem good), and try to switch from high salt oatcakes to porridge, especially if you can make it with high oatbran for the beta-glucan which seems to help lower cholesterol. I don't recall anyone suffering a downside from it except a few where it was fairly obvious ;)

Another problem with worrying about diet or frequent testing is that stress never seems to help, as several posts above correctly say.
Porridge is still carbohydrate and should not be eaten by a diabetic.

When I lost all my weight in the last 3 years, I cut out sugar, glucose and fructose found in table sugar, fruits, all sorts of processed foods bread, pasta, potatoes, pizzas, sugary drinks and alcohol. I used to eat porridge believing it was helping me lose weight. It wasn't. Porridge is carbs which is broken down into glucose which raises blood sugar levels and spikes insulin. Also any type of wheat/oat based bread whether white (highly processed vile stuff, brown or wholemeal), pasta, potatoes does the same. They should ALL be avoided. Eat protein, healthy fats, eggs, oily fish, avocados, leafy green and cruciferous veg, lots of other veg low in carbs and high in nutrients, beetroot and the best quality meat you can afford. Cut out for ever all processed food and cook for yourself from scratch. Eggs are the best nutritious food.

I just watched this recent YT video from Australia (below). Very very interesting. These doctors have got nutrition right. The body only needs 4g of glucose in the blood, above this it is converted to either glycogen in the liver or stored as fat in tissues by insulin. Then there is fructose which is even more detrimental to health than glucose. There is so much evidence now that excess glucose and fructose in the body leads to so many conditions such as dementia diabetes stroke, liver, kidney, eye sight problems, etc that previously before diets became full of sugar and fructose, carbs, people simply didn't have. Basically since intensive agriculture and the growing of wheat and potatoes started, intensive agriculture and processed food production. Wheat based foods cause so much inflammation and massive increases in blood sugar. Historically NHS around the world have been giving the wrong advice for people to eat low fat, low/no meat, high carb diets. This is why we have so many people who are now fat and or have or will develop T2 diabetes, dementia, Alzheimers, glaucoma, circulatory problems, stroke, etc. It is a terrible scandal. A sick person is much better for a doctor as they can then make money from you by prescribing drugs or carrying out invasive surgery. For people to decide to change their diet to solve their lifestyle ills makes no money for most doctors, big pharma and definately not huge processed food manufacturers as people no longer buy and eat their products.

For me I was getting desperate and decided if I wasn't going to take responsibility and ownership for improving my health and welfare then no one would as the NHS clearly isn't able to treat people properly let alone give the correct information.

Watch this video. It is very thought provoking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2g-OW-NZcY
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