How To Lose Weight

ianrobo
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Joined: 12 Jan 2017, 9:52pm

Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 22 Jun 2017, 2:16pm

Mick F wrote:If I ate 2000kcals a day, I'd be as thin as a rake, and starving hungry.
Out yesterday, I did 75miles at 100ft per mile ......... and used 3,500kcals ............... so I'd be 1,500kcals in deficit.
I tend to do 100miles a week, sometimes more, and as I'll be out riding again Thursday and Friday, I could reach 150miles this week.

2000kcals a day isn't enough for me generally.


you are thinking about calories in and calories out and then on top thinking a calorie is a calorie and a calories of fat is processed the same way as a calorie of carbs.

IF you look at the likes of Froome when super skinny he does not do that by restricting carbs but by other methods which some will claim are not legal. Your body finds it's own natural level.

ianrobo
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 22 Jun 2017, 2:17pm

ianrobo wrote:
TrevA wrote:Froomey seems to favour LCHF when training but eats carbs when racing.


he needs to but he stays Fat adapted, also check out Romain Bardet and VEspa ... Fat adaption stays with you a month at the time and when he finishes tours they go straight back to Keto

OK this is my story bare with me.

Last year I did the Marmotte in 11 hours and whilst in good shape fitness wise was 95kgs. On this ride I roomed with a guy who was Keto adapted and he told me so much about this.

Please read this book by Phinney and Volek, it will change all your thinking.

http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/

So when I got back I went into LCHF/Keto and took between 6-8 weeks to get through the adaptation, a previous posted said after 3 weeks he struggled, he will ... change of course at the start of the off season. Over the month I lost 12-14kg a bit of power but my FTP ratio went up ...

So where am I now ...

- can ride 4-5 hours fasted at decent power
- eat 2500-3000 calories a day 75% fat 15% protein rest carbs
-weight has stabilised despite doing 200 plus miles a week
- took part in numerous sportives
- completed the dragon devil in 13 hours (despite wind in the face for last 100km) and what did I eat - 4 eggs and butter for breakfast and a bag of jelly babies during the ride. I finished 192 of 500 starters.
- recovery far better, cadence has shot up from avg 75-85 so aerobic system massively improved.
- changed to MAF method where you do the 80% of training at Z2 HR or below
- Will be going back to do the Marmotte next week and hope to take 2 hours off.

Pics below - one of me in the marmotte last year one on a 150 mile ride 3 weeks ago, take a guess which is which

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/pics- ... ?u=ianrobo

Basically you do not ride to lose weight, that's wrong, you ride for fitness, you eat properly not to lose weight. If you really think eating pasta and carb loading is the way to go that's your choice but eventually it will pay back on you.


just to quote myself here !!

if you decide to go Keto you have to get rid of all the thinking you did previously about food and exercise ... it is a totally new way of thinking

softlips
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby softlips » 22 Jun 2017, 4:05pm

I'm not a fan of highly restricted diets to be honest. When the Atkins diet was popular I saw some patients with massively high cholesterol levels. I also think they're hard to keep to long term for most people. My weight loss now stands at 23 Kgs over the last year. I did aim to cut carbs almost completely but to be honest when you look into things carbs are everywhere.

I used the Fitbit app to monitor calorie intake and aimed for a calorie deficit of 750 cals per day. Using the app helped me educate myself better on what I was actually consuming. I've cut right down on carbs such as potatoes, rice, pasta. If I do have rice etc I'll try to have it as unprocessed as possible so will choose brown over white. I'm away several times a week with work and used to have a drink with my meal in an evening. I no longer do this unless I'm with colleagues.

Last September when I started cycling I struggled to do five miles in an hour and I was on blood pressure medication (I work in cardiology too). I now cycle an average speed of 18 mph (and it's hilly up here), have lost 23 Kgs and I'm off the BP meds. I cycled 100 miles in under six hours a few weeks ago and I'm doing 150 miles this Saturday.

I'm 50 in September and can honestly say I'm fitter now than I was at 18 - another kilo and I'll weigh less than I did then too!

ianrobo
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 22 Jun 2017, 6:45pm

softlips wrote:I'm not a fan of highly restricted diets to be honest. When the Atkins diet was popular I saw some patients with massively high cholesterol levels. I also think they're hard to keep to long term for most people. My weight loss now stands at 23 Kgs over the last year. I did aim to cut carbs almost completely but to be honest when you look into things carbs are everywhere.

I used the Fitbit app to monitor calorie intake and aimed for a calorie deficit of 750 cals per day. Using the app helped me educate myself better on what I was actually consuming. I've cut right down on carbs such as potatoes, rice, pasta. If I do have rice etc I'll try to have it as unprocessed as possible so will choose brown over white. I'm away several times a week with work and used to have a drink with my meal in an evening. I no longer do this unless I'm with colleagues.

Last September when I started cycling I struggled to do five miles in an hour and I was on blood pressure medication (I work in cardiology too). I now cycle an average speed of 18 mph (and it's hilly up here), have lost 23 Kgs and I'm off the BP meds. I cycled 100 miles in under six hours a few weeks ago and I'm doing 150 miles this Saturday.

I'm 50 in September and can honestly say I'm fitter now than I was at 18 - another kilo and I'll weigh less than I did then too!


Interesting points.

OK try this one by one -

- cholesterol levels - one of the biggest myths ever about the impact of this and in fact just there to sell Statins ... plenty of links out there on science of them.
- You have already cut carbs, what % of carbs are your meals now, if anything less than 40% as it could be, then you are LCF, Keto is just at the extreme end of this
- highly restricted ? what is that ? today I have had eggs, bacon, Mushrooms, sausages, salmon, spinach, tomato, cream, nuts, restricted ?

Exercise does not lose weight your diet dies, do you always feel full ? Do you ever have big hunger pains ?

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TrevA
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby TrevA » 26 Jun 2017, 7:18pm

ianrobo wrote:
TrevA wrote:Froomey seems to favour LCHF when training but eats carbs when racing.


he needs to but he stays Fat adapted, also check out Romain Bardet and VEspa ... Fat adaption stays with you a month at the time and when he finishes tours they go straight back to Keto

OK this is my story bare with me.

Last year I did the Marmotte in 11 hours and whilst in good shape fitness wise was 95kgs. On this ride I roomed with a guy who was Keto adapted and he told me so much about this.

Please read this book by Phinney and Volek, it will change all your thinking.

http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/

So when I got back I went into LCHF/Keto and took between 6-8 weeks to get through the adaptation, a previous posted said after 3 weeks he struggled, he will ... change of course at the start of the off season. Over the month I lost 12-14kg a bit of power but my FTP ratio went up ...

So where am I now ...

- can ride 4-5 hours fasted at decent power
- eat 2500-3000 calories a day 75% fat 15% protein rest carbs
-weight has stabilised despite doing 200 plus miles a week
- took part in numerous sportives
- completed the dragon devil in 13 hours (despite wind in the face for last 100km) and what did I eat - 4 eggs and butter for breakfast and a bag of jelly babies during the ride. I finished 192 of 500 starters.
- recovery far better, cadence has shot up from avg 75-85 so aerobic system massively improved.
- changed to MAF method where you do the 80% of training at Z2 HR or below
- Will be going back to do the Marmotte next week and hope to take 2 hours off.

Pics below - one of me in the marmotte last year one on a 150 mile ride 3 weeks ago, take a guess which is which

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/pics- ... ?u=ianrobo

Basically you do not ride to lose weight, that's wrong, you ride for fitness, you eat properly not to lose weight. If you really think eating pasta and carb loading is the way to go that's your choice but eventually it will pay back on you.


This is the sort of response I was hoping for. So, it takes a couple of months to get fat adapted. But did you find that your performance on the bike dropped in the interim period? That's the main reason I gave up on it. Is there any way of overcoming this performance loss? I've heard that riding more often helps you get over it. The Keto/LCHF certainly helps with weight loss, I found I lost almost 1 st in 3 weeks.

ianrobo
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 4 Jul 2017, 11:29am

TrevA wrote:This is the sort of response I was hoping for. So, it takes a couple of months to get fat adapted. But did you find that your performance on the bike dropped in the interim period? That's the main reason I gave up on it. Is there any way of overcoming this performance loss? I've heard that riding more often helps you get over it. The Keto/LCHF certainly helps with weight loss, I found I lost almost 1 st in 3 weeks.


Basically it took me about 8 weeks to become fat adapted which included a few 2 hours fasted rides. Yes it reduces performance, no question of that but thats why if you switch you do it in your off season. It has now been a year since I switched (July is quiet for me) let me quote you these. I did the Marmotte at the weekend and look at the difference.

Now I also changed my training to the MAF method and it depends then on your aims for your cycling.
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GetfitTom
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Joined: 7 Aug 2017, 9:22am

Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby GetfitTom » 13 Aug 2017, 8:58am

That was actually a brilliant read. Some of you have some really good points you put across and I have taken quite a few into consideration! Thanks for sharing

Flinders
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby Flinders » 14 Aug 2017, 4:22pm

Re the Atkins diet, purely anecdotal, but though I have seen a friend get dramatic weight loss from it and been very impressed, it pretty much all went back on again within a year or so, and I don't know whether it did anything for cardiovascular fitness even when the weight was off.

If a diet is hard to stick to, the end result is it all goes back on again.

Flinders
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby Flinders » 14 Aug 2017, 4:32pm

From what I can see, it boils down to this,
if you have no specific health problems which restrict what you can do/eat:

to get fitter, exercise more
to lose weight, eat less and choose what you eat (but no faddy 'restricted' diets, just a wide variety of sensible food and the odd treat*)
to lose weight and get fitter, do both, balancing them according to your own metabolism.

* jockeys have to be artificially light for their height. I once heard one of the best saying that his OH and her friends tended to 'go on diets' which cut out everything that they liked, and which they were (therefore) never able to stick to. His take on dieting was that you have to allow yourself little treats occasionally to be able to stick to a diet, and as he was very light for his height for a couple of decades but formidably strong, I'd suggest he knew what he was talking about.

Flinders
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby Flinders » 14 Aug 2017, 4:33pm

softlips wrote:I'm not a fan of highly restricted diets to be honest. When the Atkins diet was popular I saw some patients with massively high cholesterol levels. I also think they're hard to keep to long term for most people. My weight loss now stands at 23 Kgs over the last year. I did aim to cut carbs almost completely but to be honest when you look into things carbs are everywhere.

I used the Fitbit app to monitor calorie intake and aimed for a calorie deficit of 750 cals per day. Using the app helped me educate myself better on what I was actually consuming. I've cut right down on carbs such as potatoes, rice, pasta. If I do have rice etc I'll try to have it as unprocessed as possible so will choose brown over white. I'm away several times a week with work and used to have a drink with my meal in an evening. I no longer do this unless I'm with colleagues.

Last September when I started cycling I struggled to do five miles in an hour and I was on blood pressure medication (I work in cardiology too). I now cycle an average speed of 18 mph (and it's hilly up here), have lost 23 Kgs and I'm off the BP meds. I cycled 100 miles in under six hours a few weeks ago and I'm doing 150 miles this Saturday.

I'm 50 in September and can honestly say I'm fitter now than I was at 18 - another kilo and I'll weigh less than I did then too!

That's an impressive achievement!

ianrobo
Posts: 365
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 15 Aug 2017, 6:29pm

Flinders wrote:Re the Atkins diet, purely anecdotal, but though I have seen a friend get dramatic weight loss from it and been very impressed, it pretty much all went back on again within a year or so, and I don't know whether it did anything for cardiovascular fitness even when the weight was off.

If a diet is hard to stick to, the end result is it all goes back on again.


Spot on and I love the diet as always been a massive meat and fish eater and along with veg and other stuff suits me to the ground.

It is all personal to us but calories restricted diets can only last so long, I did that first off 22 to 12 stone and within 2 years back to 18. All I can say is under Keto for just over a year after initial weight loss I have stabilised at around 13kg no matter how much I eat, happy with that.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Aug 2017, 10:59am

Hi,
Posted this on another post.-
http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/e ... el-sources

"Fuel Metabolism and Endurance Exercise

Carbohydrate, protein, and fat each play distinct roles in fueling exercise.

Carbohydrate
•Provides a highly efficient source of fuel—Because the body requires less oxygen to burn carbohydrate as compared to protein or fat, carbohydrate is considered the body’s most efficient fuel source. Carbohydrate is increasingly vital during high-intensity exercise when the body cannot process enough oxygen to meet its needs.
•Keeps the brain and nervous system functioning—When blood glucose runs low, you become irritable, disoriented, and lethargic, and you may be incapable of concentrating or performing even simple tasks.
•Aids the metabolism of fat—To burn fat effectively, your body must break down a certain amount of carbohydrate. Because carbohydrate stores are limited compared to the body’s fat reserves, consuming a diet inadequate in carbohydrate essentially limits fat metabolism.
•Preserves lean protein (muscle) mass—Consuming adequate carbohydrate spares the body from using protein (from muscles, internal organs, or one’s diet) as an energy source. Dietary protein is much better utilized to build, maintain, and repair body tissues, as well as to synthesize hormones, enzymes, and neurotransmitters.

Fat
•Provides a concentrated source of energy—Fat provides more than twice the potential energy that protein and carbohydrate do (9 calories per gram of fat versus 4 calories per gram of carbohydrate or protein).
•Helps fuel low- to moderate-intensity activity—At rest and during exercise performed at or below 65 percent of aerobic capacity, fat contributes 50 percent or more of the fuel that muscles need.
•Aids endurance by sparing glycogen reserves—Generally, as the duration or time spent exercising increases, intensity decreases (and more oxygen is available to cells), and fat is the more important fuel source. Stored carbohydrate (muscle and liver glycogen) are subsequently used at a slower rate, thereby delaying the onset of fatigue and prolonging the activity.

Protein
•Provides energy in late stages of prolonged exercise—When muscle glycogen stores fall, as commonly occurs in the latter stages of endurance activities, the body breaks down amino acids found in skeletal muscle protein into glucose to supply up to 15 percent of the energy needed.
•Provides energy when daily diet is inadequate in total calories or carbohydrate—In this situation, the body is forced to rely on protein to meet its energy needs, leading to the breakdown of lean muscle mass."
Priority Is Still 500K In 24......Just Dreaming..............Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp.....
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere

ianrobo
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby ianrobo » 16 Aug 2017, 8:11pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:•Keeps the brain and nervous system functioning—When blood glucose runs low, you become irritable, disoriented, and lethargic, and you may be incapable of concentrating or performing even simple tasks.


This but is simply wrong because of Gluconeogenesis which turns protein into carbs. Carbs are not an essential fuel source and all you need is 600cal of glucose a day for the brain to function.

If you are into the science of this have a read of this - https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Principle ... ycogenesis

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mjr
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Re: How To Lose Weight

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2018, 10:30am

If you're on Android 4 or earlier (kitkat or earlier), my fitness pal no longer works for you since an upgrade last week. I'm not sure if you disable the automatic upgrades whether it'll keep working or for how long. I'm told the website version is poor on mobile devices. I don't know whether competitors are better.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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