Whilst chatting with a sports therapist this morning, I ended up rambling on about the importance of the spatial relationship between saddle, cranks and bars in the avoidance of knee problems. This seemed to be something that he wasn't particularly up to speed with, so ...
I seem to remember a post on here once linking to a very good website which went into the whole bike setup and the avoidance of knee pain thing in enough detail to interest a physiotherapist, but I'm jiggered if I can find anything like it now.
Does anybody have any clues please so that I might help better this young man's understanding of it?
Need info for a sports therapist!
Need info for a sports therapist!
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
Here is one that was quoted on this forum and I saved for reference.
http://www.bikepro.com.au/diy-bike-fitting
I am just repeating the link and have no idea of its worth.
http://www.bikepro.com.au/diy-bike-fitting
I am just repeating the link and have no idea of its worth.
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NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
Much obliged, chaps 
None of those is actually the one I was trying to recall, but unless somebody else comes up with anything concentrating specifically on the avoidance of knee pain, I'll pass those on to him by the weekend.
None of those is actually the one I was trying to recall, but unless somebody else comes up with anything concentrating specifically on the avoidance of knee pain, I'll pass those on to him by the weekend.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-
NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
Hi,
I came to the conclusion about two years ago that knee pain came from your feet.
That is to say that your feet feel what the sole is doing.
When you walk the sole feels the ground through the whole of the sole, as does running.
I am not going to get into the controversial subject of heel vs forefoot landing here.
But cycling means only the ball and toes are in contact whilst power delivery.
And bare in mind that the foot also swivels quite freely around the pedal spindle.
So basically apart from the ball of foot all else can be ignored with the exception of the fact that the calf mucles need to deliver the whole legs power and is partly stabilised by the muscle in front on the shin.
The lower leg muscles control the position of the foot, in the same way as the quads and hams deliver power in a positive way despite being activated at the same time.
This control and timing of muscles is individual and thus we all have our own particular style, as the Pro's do too, you would think that there is one style to be a winner but you know that's not true.
But the ability to change / modify the style at a whim shows that muscles are in harmony, but this does rely on suppleness beyond the normal range of a cyclist at work.
Steve Hogg will explain that all this relies on feedback from the feet, remember that the feedback in cycling from the feet is limited as explained above.
Something that isn't always apparent is that the foot position tracks the angle of the knee, this is because the calf muscles bridge the ankle and the knee so when the knee straightens the toes drop.
I am not getting into toe dippers / heel droppers either here.
When the muscles work in harmony the foot thinks it is walking / running, but some develop / confuse the whole process by just holding the ankle ridged.
If that happens then the natural movement of the muscles / tendons that cross the knee work against each other in a vain attempt to reduce discomfort / pain, knotting up and some thing will give.
To reduce that knotting effect I.M.O. -
Do isometric foot exercises daily (5 minutes).
When riding take care to leave ankles flexible whilst wearing shoe clobber ( no tight shoes, too thick socks, high cuffs, cold feet, gaiters tighten fit!)
The examples on the net are confusing as they mostly are aimed at injury rehabilitation.
Simply standing on a step of stairs or door way with a step, on your balls of feet (hold onto hand on rail / door frame) bare feet is ok.
Drop your heels as far as is comfortable hold for five seconds, raise heels and stand on toes as far as is comfortable hold for five seconds, repeat five times.
Build up to fifteen reps over two weeks.
Another way is to repeat as above but lower on one foot and raise on the other without stops but slow circular motions (both feet in contact but just emphasise one foot at a time) rest for five minutes and repeat in other direction to reverse exercises. i.e. Clockwise and anticlockwise. Start on five reps build up too 15 reps a day over two weeks.
Cleats / clippless pedal systems are commonly blamed for knee problems, I don't use them myself.
And its debatable exactly why some suffer and some do not.
I came to the conclusion about two years ago that knee pain came from your feet.
That is to say that your feet feel what the sole is doing.
When you walk the sole feels the ground through the whole of the sole, as does running.
I am not going to get into the controversial subject of heel vs forefoot landing here.
But cycling means only the ball and toes are in contact whilst power delivery.
And bare in mind that the foot also swivels quite freely around the pedal spindle.
So basically apart from the ball of foot all else can be ignored with the exception of the fact that the calf mucles need to deliver the whole legs power and is partly stabilised by the muscle in front on the shin.
The lower leg muscles control the position of the foot, in the same way as the quads and hams deliver power in a positive way despite being activated at the same time.
This control and timing of muscles is individual and thus we all have our own particular style, as the Pro's do too, you would think that there is one style to be a winner but you know that's not true.
But the ability to change / modify the style at a whim shows that muscles are in harmony, but this does rely on suppleness beyond the normal range of a cyclist at work.
Steve Hogg will explain that all this relies on feedback from the feet, remember that the feedback in cycling from the feet is limited as explained above.
Something that isn't always apparent is that the foot position tracks the angle of the knee, this is because the calf muscles bridge the ankle and the knee so when the knee straightens the toes drop.
I am not getting into toe dippers / heel droppers either here.
When the muscles work in harmony the foot thinks it is walking / running, but some develop / confuse the whole process by just holding the ankle ridged.
If that happens then the natural movement of the muscles / tendons that cross the knee work against each other in a vain attempt to reduce discomfort / pain, knotting up and some thing will give.
To reduce that knotting effect I.M.O. -
Do isometric foot exercises daily (5 minutes).
When riding take care to leave ankles flexible whilst wearing shoe clobber ( no tight shoes, too thick socks, high cuffs, cold feet, gaiters tighten fit!)
The examples on the net are confusing as they mostly are aimed at injury rehabilitation.
Simply standing on a step of stairs or door way with a step, on your balls of feet (hold onto hand on rail / door frame) bare feet is ok.
Drop your heels as far as is comfortable hold for five seconds, raise heels and stand on toes as far as is comfortable hold for five seconds, repeat five times.
Build up to fifteen reps over two weeks.
Another way is to repeat as above but lower on one foot and raise on the other without stops but slow circular motions (both feet in contact but just emphasise one foot at a time) rest for five minutes and repeat in other direction to reverse exercises. i.e. Clockwise and anticlockwise. Start on five reps build up too 15 reps a day over two weeks.
Cleats / clippless pedal systems are commonly blamed for knee problems, I don't use them myself.
And its debatable exactly why some suffer and some do not.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/11/knee-pain/
....direct link to Steve Hogg's knee pain page.
....but then you can't ignore cleat position.....http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/
....direct link to Steve Hogg's knee pain page.
....but then you can't ignore cleat position.....http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: Need info for a sports therapist!
Brilliant! Thank you very much indeed, gentlemen. I do believe I'm now sorted
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.