Statins - side effects

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Swallow
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Swallow » 3 Nov 2015, 8:43pm

I have many health problems including Psoriatic Arthritis, Spinal Stenosis and Type Two Diabetes. Following some chest pains I was sent for a MIBI Scan, this measures how well the heart is supplied with blood. As a result I have a letter from the hospital saying the results were very good and the likely hood of my having heart or arterial problems in the future is remote yet my GP still has me on statins. I take so much medication with so many side effects that I have decided to drop the statins
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Mick F
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 4 Nov 2015, 9:35am

Swallow wrote:I have many health problems including Psoriatic Arthritis, Spinal Stenosis and Type Two Diabetes. Following some chest pains I was sent for a MIBI Scan, this measures how well the heart is supplied with blood. As a result I have a letter from the hospital saying the results were very good and the likely hood of my having heart or arterial problems in the future is remote yet my GP still has me on statins. I take so much medication with so many side effects that I have decided to drop the statins
Good.
IMHO statins aren't a good thing at all.

Keep well, and it's good to know that there is a scan method for seeing how the heart is doing. I must look up MIBI Scan.

mjr wrote:
Mick F wrote:I want them to tell me if I have heart disease or not, and if my arteries and heart are clogged.

Can they tell you that without rather more intrusive scans or scopes? And those investigations carry their own risks.
I don't know.
I won't be backward in coming forward with questions .......... and demands.
Mick F. Cornwall

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georgew
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby georgew » 4 Nov 2015, 9:43am

I wonder if many people are aware that under a Government scheme for each patient prescribed a statin the GP is given a cash payment. This as lower cholesterol is seen as preventing coronary problems and therefore saving the NHS the cost of treating these.

From what I understand there has been no proven statistical analysis showing any positive effect of statins upon those who have not yet suffered a heart problem, but for those who have had a stroke or heart attack then statins do appear to have role in prevention. This effect is particularly marked in the case of women. It's complicated........

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 4 Nov 2015, 10:32am

georgew wrote:I wonder if many people are aware that under a Government scheme for each patient prescribed a statin the GP is given a cash payment.

Where did you get that from? As I understand it, it's not cash but GPs are paid extra for meeting all sorts of targets. Even leaving aside that medical ethics discourage unnecessary treatments, that doesn't mean GPs prescribe outside the guidelines, as the consequences of doing so would far outweigh the payment.

This as lower cholesterol is seen as preventing coronary problems and therefore saving the NHS the cost of treating these.

Well, that's why any public health guidance is ever issued...

From what I understand there has been no proven statistical analysis showing any positive effect of statins upon those who have not yet suffered a heart problem, but for those who have had a stroke or heart attack then statins do appear to have role in prevention. This effect is particularly marked in the case of women. It's complicated........

The concept of "proven statistical analysis" is an impossibly high standard and would lead to few medicines ever being prescribed: public health is a complex experimental science, so you rarely get proof. There's plenty of statistical analysis supporting use of statins for high-risk patients who haven't had a stroke or heart attack, such as this Cochrane review http://www.cochrane.org/CD004816/VASC_s ... ar-disease - but such things are not universally agreed as sound, for all sorts of reasons, of which publication bias is probably the most serious.
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby AJ101 » 4 Nov 2015, 1:31pm

For anyone not satisfied by their advice to take statins as a fix rather than addressing possible underlying issues, if you really want some background reading (it's heavy duty in places) then http://vernerwheelock.com/?s=statins is a good place to start. See also the controversial Tim Noakes.

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 4 Nov 2015, 2:46pm

AJ101 wrote:For anyone not satisfied by their advice to take statins as a fix rather than addressing possible underlying issues, if you really want...

OK, so how would any of the alternatives address the underlying issue of a liver that does not regulate LDL normally?

Would that be Tim Noakes, Chair of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town (in other words, not a doctor), advocate of a more-Atkins-than-Atkins diet that even his lipidologist colleague at University of Cape Town, Professor David Marais says "will not be able to control [FH sufferers'] cholesterol through lifestyle,” and another who seems to deny that FH exists and apparently suggests that it's merely a type of insulin-resistance? :roll:

I have respect for some statin sceptics, but not that one.
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby AJ101 » 4 Nov 2015, 5:22pm

mjr wrote:OK, so how would any of the alternatives address the underlying issue of a liver that does not regulate LDL normally?


In your experience, is that the majority of LDL issues?

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mark1978 » 4 Nov 2015, 6:09pm

Overall the doctor was happy with my progress but as I hadn't yet achieved the 50% reduction she changed my drugs from atorvastatin to rosuvastatin which I should start in a couple of weeks.

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 4 Nov 2015, 7:47pm

AJ101 wrote:
mjr wrote:OK, so how would any of the alternatives address the underlying issue of a liver that does not regulate LDL normally?

In your experience, is that the majority of LDL issues?

It's 100% of my LDL issues and of Mick F's (who started this topic) and various others. Because the NHS still doesn't do routine testing for FH (rather than just for cholesterol levels), we don't really know how common or not it is.

Mark1978 wrote:Overall the doctor was happy with my progress but as I hadn't yet achieved the 50% reduction she changed my drugs from atorvastatin to rosuvastatin which I should start in a couple of weeks.

I'm surprised by that. Well, at least you'll be getting your money's worth! (Atorvastatin costs about £2/month, Rosuvastatin about £20/month) Good luck!
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mark1978 » 4 Nov 2015, 9:05pm

She was erring on upping my Ator to 50mg from 40mg but said that she was looking for something I could take permanently and I would probably have to change in the future to which I said why not now? I did suspect it was a cost issue but not 10x the cost!

She was actually more concerned about me doing a blood test for DNA testing for research into the genetic factors of FH. My Mum has had the test and apparently they didn't find the gene with her so it'll be interesting to see the results.

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 4 Nov 2015, 9:30pm

As I understand it, there's more than one gene that can possibly cause a type of FH and they've not identified all the possible culprits yet. So it's possible for a generic test to find nothing and yet you still almost certainly have FH. :(
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Nov 2015, 11:19pm

Hi,
Mark1978 wrote:Overall the doctor was happy with my progress but as I hadn't yet achieved the 50% reduction she changed my drugs from atorvastatin to rosuvastatin which I should start in a couple of weeks.


Yearly PrePayment Certificate is £104, I am on 5 - 7 meds a month. so more than I prescription a month will see you quids in :?:

I am on rosuvastatin, went on it after the old stuff was growing crystals in my muscles.

The side affects I just looked up for rosuvastatin could be applied to any symptom the list is vast.
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby georgew » 4 Nov 2015, 11:53pm

mjr wrote:
georgew wrote:I wonder if many people are aware that under a Government scheme for each patient prescribed a statin the GP is given a cash payment.

Where did you get that from? As I understand it, it's not cash but GPs are paid extra for meeting all sorts of targets. Even leaving aside that medical ethics discourage unnecessary treatments, that doesn't mean GPs prescribe outside the guidelines, as the consequences of doing so would far outweigh the payment. [quote]



The large Pharmaceutical companies have for years lavished hospitality and paid Doctors and Consultants for so-called studies in order to boost the sales of their products.

"Hospitals and GP groups will be required to keep a register of hospitality and gifts from pharmaceutical firms to health service staff iIn a major crackdown on corruption in the NHS"

“Even worse, the Telegraph’s investigation suggested that some NHS staff and professionals making these decisions may have been influenced by extravagant hospitality," Mr Hunt says. "It’s hard not to conclude that some sales reps have been ripping the NHS off, and diverting taxpayers’ money away from patient care.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... firms.html

And in the US.....
" In 2004, after the National Cholesterol Education Program called for sharply lowering the desired levels of ‘bad’ cholesterol, it was revealed that eight of nine members of the panel writing the recommendations had financial ties to the makers of cholesterol-lowering drugs."
http://www.feelguide.com/2014/01/12/90- ... ig-pharma/

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mark1978 » 5 Nov 2015, 6:37am

NA. Yes I'm on pre payment as I have 5 different things I get monthly.

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Mick F
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 5 Nov 2015, 8:02am

I was on pre-payment for quite some years, with two or sometimes three items. Usually, it was just the one (statins) as my asthma inhalers were used infrequently.

What I did was this:
Pay for your PPC - this gives you 12 months of "free" prescriptions.
If you are on regular medications, make sure you get 14 or 15 repeats in that 12 months and build up a stock.
When your 12 months is up, don't renew immediately, but delay until your stock depletes.
Renew again, and repeat.
I found I could regularly get 15 months out of a year. ie 3 months in hand.

Turned 60 now, so I don't worry about the cost.
Mick F. Cornwall