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Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 4 Sep 2018, 9:48am
by Bonefishblues
brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
ianrobo wrote:
whether you believe in statins or not what you have shown here is key and that is for every patient to be informed about these things and then you make a decision based on yes Doctor's advice but your own investigations.

Yes there is a lot of contradictory evidence out there but who is to say a standard GP is right ? how much training do you think they have had on heart disease/food/statins etc .... it is general practice after all and no patient has to take what the doctor says.


I had to read my own ECG and explain to my GP. He is actually a very good GP but unless you’re looking at ECGs every day you can’t go much beyond the very basics.

That is the thing I think
GPs have a very broad training
Anyone who has suffered an illness and read up about it might know more than their GT

I imagine GPs spend a lot of their time managing the worried well in addition to disabusing people of ideas and 'expertise' they have gained online. T'web's a great thing if used wisely!

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 9:41pm
by Chris Ince
Bored watching tv tonight so thought I would troll through the forum and came across this. Mick, I would never take statins apart from the fact I had a major heart attack nine years ago and have been on simvastatin ( and a shed load of other drugs) ever since. I hate chuck pills down my throat but in my case my GP says it is really an insurance policy. That may be the case but it worse was I ended up with aggressive prostate cancer last year and then surgery, hormone and radiotherapy; but that's another story. The only thing is it has completely messed up my cycling as it has left me permanently incontinent. Wished I'd never had the op and taken my chance with another 5-15 years of long distance cycling without constantly micturating.if anyone out there has had the same and knows how to cope, I would appreciate it. Club runs for me are Infrequent and short for me these days.[quote][/quote]

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 9:54pm
by nez
531colin wrote:My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".
However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?
sorry to raise this Colin after such a long time but I’ve recently done a bit of research on line on this subject and I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Cholesterol is rarely a fail safe indicator for trouble or safe passage. Insulin resistance is and, apparently, arterial calcium plaque is too. There’s a biochemist who’s written about it - Ivor Cummins.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 9:56pm
by nez
Chris Ince wrote:Bored watching tv tonight so thought I would troll through the forum and came across this. Mick, I would never take statins apart from the fact I had a major heart attack nine years ago and have been on simvastatin ( and a shed load of other drugs) wver since. I hate chuck pills down my throat but in my case my GP says it is really an insurance policy. That may be the case it worse was I ended up with aggressive prostate cancer last year and then surgery, hormone and radiotherapy; but that's another story. The only thing is it has completely messed up my cycling as it has left me permanently incontinent. Wished I'd never had the op and taken my chance with another 5-15 years of long distance cycling without constantly micturating.if anyone out there has had the same and knows how to cope, I would appreciate it. Club runs for me are Infrequent and shirt for me these days.

Good luck Chris.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 9:58pm
by nez
Bonefishblues wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
I had to read my own ECG and explain to my GP. He is actually a very good GP but unless you’re looking at ECGs every day you can’t go much beyond the very basics.

That is the thing I think
GPs have a very broad training
Anyone who has suffered an illness and read up about it might know more than their GT

I imagine GPs spend a lot of their time managing the worried well in addition to disabusing people of ideas and 'expertise' they have gained online. T'web's a great thing if used wisely!
doctors say 50% of medical training is out of date soon after they qualify - but the problem is no one can predict which 50%

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 12 Oct 2018, 10:11pm
by Chris Ince
Many thanks, just posted extended post under Prostatitis forum, salutary lesson if you want to read it

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 13 Oct 2018, 7:31pm
by 531colin
nez dans le guidon wrote:
531colin wrote:My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".
However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?
sorry to raise this Colin after such a long time but I’ve recently done a bit of research on line on this subject and I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Cholesterol is rarely a fail safe indicator for trouble or safe passage. Insulin resistance is and, apparently, arterial calcium plaque is too. There’s a biochemist who’s written about it - Ivor Cummins.


My daughter worked in the stroke department in Addenbrooks for a while, so I'm afraid its who I know rather than what I know.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 13 Oct 2018, 7:35pm
by nez
But can she build wheels? :shock:

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 15 Oct 2018, 8:26pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
I am back on statins and anticoagulants too.

After my diagnosis of a restriction in my leg artery, which I previously had an operation on in 87.

I will just have to live with it, symptoms have been coming on for a few years now.
Any intervention is dangerous before it becomes limp threatening.

Fortunately I can cycle with mild discomfort.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 30 Oct 2018, 9:48am
by deliquium

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 11:36am
by Cugel
deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 7 Nov 2018, 1:09pm
by nez
This makes me wonder what you imagine a swathe is 8)

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 8 Nov 2018, 8:09pm
by ianrobo
Cugel wrote:
deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel


I could tear this load of nonsense apart in so many areas from that article but let me throw this article at you

https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/08/30/eat-more-meat/

and the rise of veganism claiming meat/sat fat is damaging to health.

People have to make up their own mind but bear in mind the average GP or even consultant has little nutrition trying. A cardiovascular surgeon I know confirmed this .... remember in any treatment you are the patient and you can decide to take it or not, you are not forced to take what they say at face value.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 1 Mar 2019, 10:59pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
Been feeling crap as of late :(
Resigned to more meds after weaning myself of several over a few years.
Ache all the time and cycling is not good.
Atorvastatin 10 mg ( I had it my mind that they wanted to up the dose) I used to be on Rosuvastatin and seemed OK but after missing for two weeks because the chemist did not have any :? felt a new man again :)
Rang the docs and he said stop taking for two weeks, all I need is another energy / performance sapper :evil:
Fortunately the BP med seems to have some mild performance enhancement 8) :lol:

GP said that rosuvastatin can be taken at a lower dose..............mmmmm, don't relish them things again or any additional med but what can I do with a restricted artery.

Re: Statins - side effects

Posted: 1 Mar 2019, 11:31pm
by pete75
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Been feeling crap as of late :(
Resigned to more meds after weaning myself of several over a few years.
Ache all the time and cycling is not good.
Atorvastatin 10 mg ( I had it my mind that they wanted to up the dose) I used to be on Rosuvastatin and seemed OK but after missing for two weeks because the chemist did not have any :? felt a new man again :)
Rang the docs and he said stop taking for two weeks, all I need is another energy / performance sapper :evil:
Fortunately the BP med seems to have some mild performance enhancement 8) :lol:

GP said that rosuvastatin can be taken at a lower dose..............mmmmm, don't relish them things again or any additional med but what can I do with a restricted artery.


Have a stent put in.