Statins - side effects

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mjr
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 7 Nov 2019, 1:45pm

Mick F wrote:
drossall wrote:I'll try to read through this rather long but relevant thread later. I'm on 80mg Atorvastatin after a double heart bypass in early June. However, my GP has already said that he wants to trial a reduced dose in the new year.
I was on 80mg Atorvastatin for ten years before I came to my senses.

You won't get me taking any statins again.

Literally in my case! I am missing months of memories :(
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Mick F
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 8 Nov 2019, 6:54am

The headaches I was getting, were terrible. I had them irregularly, but when I got them, there was only one thing that worked.
Take Co-codomal and go to bed.
Two days later, I was fine.

It took me to read the side effects leaflet to realise what was going on.
Having taken the Atorvastatin for so long, I had stopped reading them yonks back. It only took me a minute at an idle moment to see.
Mick F. Cornwall

drossall
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby drossall » 8 Nov 2019, 9:46pm

Given the heart bypass, the strong advice not to stop taking medications without medical supervision, and the likely reaction of my wife (after her experience of coping with my condition this summer) if I were to try giving them up, I'll be waiting to work with my GP on any change of dose :D

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez » 9 Nov 2019, 11:46pm

mjr wrote:
Mick F wrote:
drossall wrote:I'll try to read through this rather long but relevant thread later. I'm on 80mg Atorvastatin after a double heart bypass in early June. However, my GP has already said that he wants to trial a reduced dose in the new year.
I was on 80mg Atorvastatin for ten years before I came to my senses.

You won't get me taking any statins again.

Literally in my case! I am missing months of memories :(


This happened to me, though in my case it was patchy and sporadic. I was in a highly stressful management job at the time and thought I was going bonkers.

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Mick F
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 11 Nov 2019, 7:18pm

Mick F wrote:Just had blood test this morning.
My specialist had got in touch with me and asked me to book one.

Hopefully, all will be well.
I await the results!
Got them.
They want me to make a phone appointment with my doctor.
I expect them to congratulate me. :D :D

IMG_0473.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby fastpedaller » 11 Nov 2019, 11:36pm

Cugel wrote:
deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel


Hmm.... we are always learning (yes even the medics). Sometimes it's best to listen to your body and make your own decisions?
About 9 years ago I was suffering from terrible bouts of vertigo - It's difficult to describe to a non-sufferer, and even thinking about it brings back dreadful memories. Anyway, the first time it happened I thought I was having a stroke or something (my Father died of a stroke at 58). Medic just tested my blood pressure and said 'no you're ok - and if you'd had a stroke you probably wouldn't remember such detail.' I was meant to be re-assured by that? These odd 'attacks' happened with increasing frequency and one night I woke up with a pounding body, vertigo and sweating profusely - my Wife called the ambulance and the paramedics said 'we think he's had a heart attack, he has the symptoms' - They wired me up and said 'no the heart looks strong, but we can't leave you like this' and took me to hospital. they checked blood, did 3 more ECG's and said they couldn't find anything wrong. The Registrar suggested acupuncture or homoeopathy may help. I told the GP that every time I had vertigo I also has a pain in my left side under the ribcage, they just offered 'anti-dizzy pills' which I declined on the basis that I wanted to cure the problem, not mask it. My Wife suggested I visit a nutritionist as she and I were convinced of a link with the gut pain. N's first comment after I told her my symptoms was "Dozey medics! I'll bet a pound to a penny that you're lactose intolerant - come off milk straight away". I've been ok (no more attacks) since. If I have milk chocolate it works as a laxative :lol:. I don't know where I'd be if I'd not consulted her. I have benefitted from acupuncture, and (an addition to this long story) 4 years ago I was getting dreadful cold feet during Winter (wear 2 pair of socks in bed? I think not) and mentioned this to my Acupuncturist (Chinese lady also has a masters in Chinese herbal medicine), who gave me a herbal mix...… boil for 30 mins, extract fluid etc etc to arrive at 5 mugs of the foulest tasting liquid! Taken over 5 days and I've never had the problem again!
There's a lot we don't know about and can't explain.

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Cugel » 12 Nov 2019, 8:53am

fastpedaller wrote:
Cugel wrote:
deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel


Hmm.... we are always learning (yes even the medics). Sometimes it's best to listen to your body and make your own decisions?
About 9 years ago I was suffering from terrible bouts of vertigo - It's difficult to describe to a non-sufferer, and even thinking about it brings back dreadful memories. Anyway, the first time it happened I thought I was having a stroke or something (my Father died of a stroke at 58). Medic just tested my blood pressure and said 'no you're ok - and if you'd had a stroke you probably wouldn't remember such detail.' I was meant to be re-assured by that? These odd 'attacks' happened with increasing frequency and one night I woke up with a pounding body, vertigo and sweating profusely - my Wife called the ambulance and the paramedics said 'we think he's had a heart attack, he has the symptoms' - They wired me up and said 'no the heart looks strong, but we can't leave you like this' and took me to hospital. they checked blood, did 3 more ECG's and said they couldn't find anything wrong. The Registrar suggested acupuncture or homoeopathy may help. I told the GP that every time I had vertigo I also has a pain in my left side under the ribcage, they just offered 'anti-dizzy pills' which I declined on the basis that I wanted to cure the problem, not mask it. My Wife suggested I visit a nutritionist as she and I were convinced of a link with the gut pain. N's first comment after I told her my symptoms was "Dozey medics! I'll bet a pound to a penny that you're lactose intolerant - come off milk straight away". I've been ok (no more attacks) since. If I have milk chocolate it works as a laxative :lol:. I don't know where I'd be if I'd not consulted her. I have benefitted from acupuncture, and (an addition to this long story) 4 years ago I was getting dreadful cold feet during Winter (wear 2 pair of socks in bed? I think not) and mentioned this to my Acupuncturist (Chinese lady also has a masters in Chinese herbal medicine), who gave me a herbal mix...… boil for 30 mins, extract fluid etc etc to arrive at 5 mugs of the foulest tasting liquid! Taken over 5 days and I've never had the problem again!
There's a lot we don't know about and can't explain.


Well ... if we don't know about something then .... we don't know and therefore can do nothing.

But your tale illustrates that different kind of knowing that we can have, other than what's come to be called the scientific way of knowing, are available. We can know something that's true (in the sense of a procedure that works) without having the knowing obtained by scientific method of analysis to reveal every last cog in the procedure, so to speak. Some things we know are black boxes - we recognise the box-shape and know what it can do without any understanding of what's inside.

Some of these black box knowings are via a long history of trial & error. A lot of herbalism is like that. (Of course, herbalist remedies can now also be analysed scientifically to a degree, so they can become a known with the insides of the black box workings laid bare). Other kinds of black box knowing remain mysterious. The temptation is to then invent or imagine what's inside the black box without being able to check if the invention or imagining is true. Some Chinese medicine is like that. The trouble is ....

Once imagined or invented "reasons" for a black box mechanism that works are accepted, the humans begin to extrapolate. A primary and pervasive example in our own history of medicine, as well as that of China, is The Doctrine of Sympathies. Things that look alike are somehow felt to be connected via their invisible (black box) aspects because they exhibit gross similarities. Thus we have the notion that powdered rhino horn will cure impotence because rhino horns look like ......

This is the danger with such medical traditions. A good (bad) part of them are pure imagination and often very flawed human invention. The trick is to sort out those black box not-really-knowns-at-all from the more efficacious black box knowings that are true on the basis of lots of successful trial & error testing.

But then there's the placebo effect.....

Cugel

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Nov 2019, 9:01am

By coincidence I am sat here in the Heart Clinic waiting for my annual 'Is it still going?' appointment :D

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 12 Nov 2019, 9:41am

Mick F wrote:Sorry, I was being basic and simple. Perhaps too simple.

Yes, I'm on the PCSK9 inhibitor.
It allows the liver to absorb cholesterol. Normally, my liver, doesn't do it so well so the cholesterol builds up and the inhibitor removes the barrier ........... or that's the way I understand it.

Injection Friday coming up again.

Are you suffering the sniffles, the blocked ears or the metallic taste? My cholesterol numbers are better but I'm not sure I can live the rest of my life with basically a mild cold.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 12 Nov 2019, 11:02am

No.
No side effects at all that I can detect.
I'd have to stop having the injections for a while to see if there's anything to detect.

I'm getting older, that's all. Some days I feel older than others, and I hate this cold miserable weather.

PS:
I usually have a mild cold. Been like it for years. I put it down to having asthma. Usually clears up in the warmer weather.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Nov 2019, 3:59pm

The cold weather gets to me. The wet weather, the windy weather too. As does the heat. What am I to do?
John

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