decent 1/8th chain

[mig]

as the winter commuter has already had a pounding i'm in the market for a good, maybe bushed, fixed gear chain and saw this :

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/kmc-e101-ept-singlespeed-chain-ecoproteq-for-e-bike-and-hub-gears-2674085

come on now!

[Brucey]

£63.....

My favoured approach at present is to use KMC B1 chains; the only thing is that they don't last that long. But they are only £5 each so maybe that is OK.

cheers

[amediasatex]

I’ve not used the B1 but have had good longevity from the 510HX over the years (~£6-£7), and it’s 3/32 brother the 610HX

They’re not bushed but work well for me, I would consider the B1 though if anyone has used both and has any comparisons in terms of longevity.

[rjb]

Ive been disappointed by my KMC 1/8th chain on my tandem crossover drive, well 2 chains to make it the correct length. It wasnt the B1 as it was a bushless construction. It streched rapidly and as there is no sideways movement as its inline i was disappointed. I replaced it with 2 used bushed chains, which had been removed from old sturmey hubbed bikes. So get down to your local bike recycling centre and pick up a couple of chains for peanuts.

[Brucey]

in terms of B1 longevity it all depends on when you consider them jiggered. If you are running an IGH with a steel chainring then you might let the chain go to over 1.5% before retiring it. This will also cost you the sprocket (about £3) unless it can be turned, but not usually the chainring. I think (when oiled but not cleaned) they do about 1000 miles per 0.5% this way, but the current one may be settling down as time goes on. Maybe it is just wishful thinking. A friend has run one on a Moulton with a 13T sprocket and that seemed to wear more quickly than with a larger sprocket despite the (presumably) lower tension. But even at two chains and two sprockets per annum you are only looking at about £16 a year to keep things sweet.

If you use posh chainrings and sprockets, wearing them out is rather less amusing and is certainly more pricey. I suspect that with some care and diligence you could catch the chains before they go over 0.5% and save the chainring and sprocket that way. Fixed gear setups (and others with little chain slack) are notoriously hard on chains so I would expect the wear rates to be higher than when using an IGH with a (typically in my case) slacker running chain.

I have a cunning plan, which is basically to rotate B1 chains. This will be more work than not, but I want to test some different chain lube strategies. If I have four chains on the go (ooooh, a whole twenty quid's worth....! ) then they can be off the bike, cleaned and reprepped three (or all four) at a time, which might take about five minutes per chain. I plan to solvent degrease using an ultrasonic cleaner, and to try some thicker lube that has to be melted before it will run into the bushings, but once it is in there, it will stay put for longer.

The idea is that the actual bushing area in a fully bushed 1/8" chain is x2 or maybe x3 that of a modern bushingless chain. [Take a look inside one; there is generous (non load bearing) entry radius into each half-bushing, and the half bushings are so narrow that they don't come close to meeting in the middle...] This means that whereas a bushingless chain relies almost exclusively on hard surface treatments for wear resistance, if you use the right lube you may prevent metal to metal contact for longer in a fully bushed chain and therefore that the bushings are softer may not matter so much. If this principle works then it ought to work until

a) the lube film gets breached or pushed to one side in the bushings and/or
b) the lube becomes contaminated with dirt, wear debris etc.

So anyway the scheme would be to use each chain for (at a guess) a few hundred miles and then to fit another one. Because the chains would all be at similar wear state then moving the wheel ought not be required (except perhaps on fixed), so the chain swap ought to be quick and simple. Once every few weeks there would have to be a clean/reprep session.

BTW I don't plan to buy an expensive chain wax; you could easily spend more than the chain is worth on the lube that way, and beside which I hope I can concoct something better suited to both UK conditions and fully-bushed chains.

cheers

[alexnharvey]

I'm doing something similar, rotating three chains (2xB1S & another KMC), waxing them with 90% parrafin wax and 10% beeswax. Curious about any EP and corrosion additives for wax.

[amediasatex]

With the 510HX I’ve been using the ‘run it to destruction’ approach which seems to get me about 3-5000miles, without losing the sprocket, and if I’m willing to sacrifice the sprocket I’ve managed ~10,000 miles when I finally threw the whole lot in the bin but it was totally and utterly ruined by that point and incredibly rough.

With cheap chains and sprockets I’m not as bothered about a rotation scheme and am basically lazy, I don’t think it works out that expensive to just run them into the ground.

I’ve actually got a 3/32 bushed chain on my SS commuter at the moment, I have no idea what it is as there’s no markings on it and it was pulled out of the spares pile at the workshop, curious to see how that lasts...

I’m much more conscientious with posh chains and multi-speed setups though.

[Brucey]

one thing I would mention is that the B1 chain is made to different tolerances than typical bushingless chains are. In particular the amount of slop in the rollers appears to be quite a bit less.

It seems to me that one knock-on from this is that, on a used (and slightly worn) sprocket, a new B1 chain is liable to be noiser and less smooth-running than a new bushingless chain might be.

cheers

[thelawnet]

as the winter commuter has already had a pounding i'm in the market for a good, maybe bushed, fixed gear chain and saw this :

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/kmc-e101-ept-singlespeed-chain-ecoproteq-for-e-bike-and-hub-gears-2674085

come on now!

This overpriced 'super-strong' e-bike stuff is a new scam for the gullible.

See also http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-xg-899-e-b ... -cassette/

[alexnharvey]

one thing I would mention is that the B1 chain is made to different tolerances than typical bushingless chains are. In particular the amount of slop in the rollers appears to be quite a bit less.

It seems to me that one knock-on from this is that, on a used (and slightly worn) sprocket, a new B1 chain is liable to be noiser and less smooth-running than a new bushingless chain might be.

cheers

It is! I just made my first switch from the bushingless KMC to a b1s. They appeared to be identical in length, both slightly worn and yet the b1s is very noisy add rough under any load. I was worried that the bushingless chain and also the sprocket must be more worn than I'd realised so it is good to understand the noise.

Should I take the bushingless chain out of rotation? I could switch out the freewheel if it's likely to lead to the other chains wearing rapidly until they match.

[Brucey]

I think your experiment will always have a question mark over it if you rotate differently constructed chains like that. So it is arguably a cleaner experiment to use chains that are all the same. As to whether a worn sprocket/chainring will accelerate wear in the chain, I think it will do a bit (at least for a while), but roughness that soon reduces is quite a good indication that the parts are rapidly becoming better acquainted.

cheers

[mig]

as the winter commuter has already had a pounding i'm in the market for a good, maybe bushed, fixed gear chain and saw this :

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/kmc-e101-ept-singlespeed-chain-ecoproteq-for-e-bike-and-hub-gears-2674085

come on now!

This overpriced 'super-strong' e-bike stuff is a new scam for the gullible.

See also http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-xg-899-e-b ... -cassette/

holy cow! wouldn't pay a penny more than £270 for that.

okay so along with the E bike chain i'm thinking of running this sprocket through the winter crud.

https://www.velodrome.shop/track-sprockets/eai-gold-medal-pro-cog/

or are there any decent alternatives?

[slowster]

okay so along with the E bike chain i'm thinking of running this sprocket through the winter crud.

https://www.velodrome.shop/track-sprockets/eai-gold-medal-pro-cog/

or are there any decent alternatives?

Royce's version is also available in 19t, 20t and 22t (bigger is generally better and also spreads the wear) - http://www.royceuk.co.uk/Titanium-Fixed-Sprocket-with-Titanium-Nitride-Finish.html. Phil Wood make some in stainless steel.

NB I've read some comments on LFGSS that the EAI Gold Medal sprocket has a relatively wide profile, and is not compatible with all track hubs, for example Royce and Phil Wood, because the wide sprocket does not leave enough exposed thread for the lockring to be properly engaged.

[alexnharvey]

as the winter commuter has already had a pounding i'm in the market for a good, maybe bushed, fixed gear chain and saw this :

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/kmc-e101-ept-singlespeed-chain-ecoproteq-for-e-bike-and-hub-gears-2674085

come on now!

This overpriced 'super-strong' e-bike stuff is a new scam for the gullible.

See also http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-xg-899-e-b ... -cassette/

holy cow! wouldn't pay a penny more than £270 for that.

okay so along with the E bike chain i'm thinking of running this sprocket through the winter crud.

https://www.velodrome.shop/track-sprockets/eai-gold-medal-pro-cog/

or are there any decent alternatives?

Wow, I've just realised it's a windup

[Brucey]

ah but the EAI cog is 'protected by a durable cog pouch'. That makes all the difference, you know.

cheers