Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

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markjohnobrien
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby markjohnobrien » 1 Jul 2020, 12:04am

NickJP wrote:All my bikes are setup like that. It amuses me when I see the wannabes trundling around with their bars six or eight inches below the saddle because "that's how the pros do it".

Image



That’s a lovely Gilles Berthoud saddle. How long have you had it for?

PH
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby PH » 1 Jul 2020, 12:28am

Oceanic wrote:I’m more interested in how this will affect the bike’s handling.

It won't, well it will but no more than a cm fore/aft with the saddle, a cm or two higher or lower, the weight of the rider, the size of the rider, what they had for breakfast, the kit they're carrying, the pressure in the tyres, the size of the tyres, their riding style, how hard they pedal, how flexible they are, their foot position on the pedal, and no doubt many other things that haven't just sprung to mind.
These bikes are designed for an average that not many people will be, it's very kind of you to be so concerned for others welfare, but if the don't consider they have a problem there's a pretty good chance it's because they don't. They're more likely to have an issue if they set their bike to conform with someone else's ideas rather then what suits them.
I'm also wondering why this apparent problem would exist with an Aheadset but not with a quill stem. You just don't hear it, so it must be about something other than the height of the bars above the headtube.

NickJP
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby NickJP » 1 Jul 2020, 5:19am

markjohnobrien wrote:That’s a lovely Gilles Berthoud saddle. How long have you had it for?


I bought it when I put the bike together, so it's now about three years old. It's the Aravis model with what they call a cork finish.

There's a nice video showing the manufacture of Berthoud saddles at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw.

Jamesh
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Jamesh » 1 Jul 2020, 8:45am

Nick

What frame is that by the way looks like and open mold gravel bike frame??

Cheers James

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Paul Smith SRCC
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Paul Smith SRCC » 1 Jul 2020, 12:01pm

Oceanic wrote:I still think the bikes in this thread would make more sense if the top tube ran from the seat tube, to just underneath the stem. Those who wanted a low position could fit a -17deg stem, the rest could lose the stack of spacers.

I looked up the details of Dolan's GXC. Although it has a very high front end and is marketed as a gravel bike, it comes stock with 28mm tyres and 50/34 11-28 gears. Sounds more like an ideal carbon Mamil bike to me.

To be fair you can spec' larger tyres and cassette on the Dolan, many dealers will also often amend standard spec' bikes as well. I concur, many Gravel bikes would also be suitable as a "carbon Mamil" bike. In this instance Dolan do not list as much data that I can use to compose a BikeCAD drawing, bb drop/height for example, but I can make a guesstimate of what they would be. Comparing the bike fit to a Trek Domane of a similar size, one of the most popular endurance bikes; you can achieve similar reach and drop/height to the handlebars on each

CTC Dolan GXC Large.jpg
Large Dolan GXC
CTC 2021 Trek Domane SL4 56cm.jpg
56cm Trek Domane

Valbrona
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Valbrona » 1 Jul 2020, 12:54pm

Manufacturers state 'stack' and 'reach', but a ratio of the two would be good for comparison. So you would easily know your high stack to short reach and low stack to long reach bikes.
I should coco.

NickJP
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby NickJP » 1 Jul 2020, 12:56pm

Jamesh wrote:What frame is that by the way looks like and open mold gravel bike frame??

No, it's an Open U.P.P.E.R. frame: https://opencycle.com/up. I bought my frameset here in Australia at a substantial discount in an EOFY sale for $A4500 - looks like the frameset price in the UK is around £4k or slightly less - e.g. https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/open-u-p-p-e-r.

Open mold frames are a fraction of the price - I built my wife a bike based around a Carbonda CFR505 frame that I purchased directly from the Carbonda factory in China, and that frameset cost $A700 plus slightly over one hundred dollars for shipping. That same frameset is used by a number of companies for their badge-engineered bikes - e.g. Thesis bolt a bunch of components on it and sell it as the Thesis OB1: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/thesis-ob1-long-term-review-good-performance-lots-of-custom-options/.

Valbrona
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Valbrona » 1 Jul 2020, 12:56pm

NickJP wrote:Image


Can't you do a bike ride without a tin of baked beans and gas cooker?
I should coco.

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Oceanic
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 1 Jul 2020, 1:20pm

NickJP wrote:Open mold frames are a fraction of the price - I built my wife a bike based around a Carbonda CFR505 frame that I purchased directly from the Carbonda factory in China, and that frameset cost $A700 plus slightly over one hundred dollars for shipping. That same frameset is used by a number of companies for their badge-engineered bikes - e.g. Thesis bolt a bunch of components on it and sell it as the Thesis OB1.


Seems to be a common business model in Australia. I lusted after an Australian Nove AeroX, then discovered that Noves are rebadged open mould frames bought from LightCarbon. I now have the LightCarbon frame which I bought for 25% of the cost of the Nove version.
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Oceanic
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 1 Jul 2020, 1:34pm

Paul Smith SRCC wrote:CTC Dolan GXC Large.jpg Large Dolan GXC
CTC 2021 Trek Domane SL4 56cm.jpg 56cm Trek Domane


I like your bike CAD images a lot, it‘s helpful/ interesting to see the two frames side by side.

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Paul Smith SRCC
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Paul Smith SRCC » 1 Jul 2020, 2:34pm

Oceanic wrote:
Paul Smith SRCC wrote:CTC Dolan GXC Large.jpg Large Dolan GXC
CTC 2021 Trek Domane SL4 56cm.jpg 56cm Trek Domane


I like your bike CAD images a lot, it‘s helpful/ interesting to see the two frames side by side.

I composed those in BikeCAD Pro (something to do while I'm on Furlough, so much for the biketrade booming...) but there is a free version that you may enjoy using.

If that appeals before you do anything create your free account so that you can save your drawing when finished. You can start with either their quick start drawing, or any from their design archive, I've just added those two for you just incase. You can edit and save to your free account as your own drawing and keep it 'private' or make 'public' as desired. When you have found the drawing you want to start with simply click on the green "open in BikeCAD' tab, note as they correctly state "it can take several minutes to load"; it does.

The free version works best if you do not display the chain and rear derailleur, plus even though technically you can I would not try and upload any brand logos as it is inclined to crash, I composed those earlier in BikeCAD Pro, so it was not an issue. For aesthetics you can add text to the frame and components even in the free version, as that is different to uploading a logo. You will see I have added each drawing twice to the design archive, one with logos, chain and rear derailleur and one without.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby The utility cyclist » 1 Jul 2020, 3:08pm

Jamesh wrote:I don't think mamils generally visit this forum far to uncool!

8 speed is probably the average gears for folk on here to which a mail wouldnt wave at!!

I have a new mamil summer top the world's championship jersey from last year I beg forgiveness for when I ride it.

It's a lovely top by santani more like a skin suit tbh.

But to counter it I have a bright orange holdsworth replica jersey too!

Cheers James

You should start a poll, it might be interesting, pose the question maybe something like ' which 'speed' gear system do you cycle most often with' include fixed/single speed to 13 - Rotor users and 14 for the Rohloff lot.

A1anP
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby A1anP » 1 Jul 2020, 4:55pm

I just measured my Triban 3, which has been my summer / holiday bike from 2013 - early 2020. As I suspected, it has 3cm of spacers and a flipped stem. It is only an aluminium frame, but I did upgrade the fork to carbon. I'm also in the habit of wearing cycle-specific clothing, making me a MAMIL (or probably more accurately an OMIL). I quite like the way it looks, but then again, I've only been cycling for about 8 years and so didn't own any classic racing cycles in my youth, which might otherwise have informed my judgement. It would bother me a little if others thought my bike was some kind of monstrosity, but only a little.

I don't race, as you might have guessed, but do like to have a wee blast every now and then, keeping within my limits for safe cornering, etc. If the handling of the bike has been affected by not having the stem slammed, then I haven't been aware of it, and it hasn't spoiled my enjoyment.

Oh, and it's 3 x 8 speed!

I've since upgraded to a carbon bike (and 3 x 9 speed), built from a Planet X Pro Carbon Evo frame (when it was £300, not the current stupid price). Still 3cm of spacers but non-flipped stem. I reckon I could manage it if it were slammed, but only for short rides and the drops would be out of bounds!!!

IMG_3129.JPG
Going upwards at 45 degrees...

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Oceanic
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby Oceanic » 1 Jul 2020, 5:51pm

A1anP wrote:. If the handling of the bike has been affected ... then I haven't been aware of it, and it hasn't spoiled my enjoyment.


There was some discussion on the Marginal Gains podcast about how some riders are highly sensitive to changes in the way a bike handles, and others are entirely oblivious. Their main point was that it is better to be in the oblivious group! They also discussed the fact that if a rider is convinced that there should be something wrong with the way a bike handles, they will perceive that problem, even if it's not there.

A1anP
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Re: Carbon frames for Mamils with high handlebars.

Postby A1anP » 1 Jul 2020, 6:01pm

The oblivious group sounds like me, though not always. I did stop once halfway down a descent after feeling that something was wrong with the steering. It turned out that I was shivering uncontrollably after being caught out in a squall. Still not very pleasant :lol:
Going upwards at 45 degrees...