Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by LittleGreyCat »

After yeah these many years my long delayed refurbish of my ancient Dawes Galaxy is moving forward again.

Brief history:
bought on eBay around 2008 for (I think) around £40.
Well worn, seller thought it would go for spares.
However I had always wanted a Dawes Galaxy so I bid for it.

It rode OK but was well worn - vendor said they had done a lot of European touring.
I rode it now and then but couldn't get on with the down tube shifters, especially trying to change down in a hurry on steep hills.
I had always ridden a flat bar MTB with trigger shifters.
Anyway, I paid a LBS to fit Brifters.
I didn't ride it much after that - changing job then (yay!) redundancy so it was a while before I got to ride it from home.

First ride out the chain broke.
I ordered a new chain, but then started looking more closely at the various bits, and thinking about a good service and fettle.
Bad, bad move!
This must have been around 2009/2010.

First thing was a replacement chain, replacement big ring, and a cartridge bottom bracket because the original BB was well thrashed.
This was fitted but then work ceased.

Much later, I was setting about fitting the rear wheel when I realised that the freehub wasn't...ummm....free.
Much fettling and help from Brucey and I had the freehub off the wheel, soaked in auto transmission fluid, working again and back on the wheel.
Bag of new bearings to fit.
Another very long pause.

I've just managed to refurbish the rear hob on my MTB and thought that as I was on a roll I would refit the axle, with new bearings, to the rear wheel of the DG.
After much confusion (not as alike as I thought to the MTB axle) I have the wheel in the frame with the freehub on and just waiting for the cogs to go back on and the chain to be fitted.
[Noting that there seems to be a locknut missing from the non-drive side - there is a spacer but I would expect this to be locked to the cone with a locknut - however the axle will only fit the frame without the locknut.]

Anyway, I though it sensible to lubricate the Brifters prior to fitting the last few bits of the drive chain.
They are marked "Shimano 7 speed" and "Shimano Triple".
The brake lever changes up by sweeping towards the middle of the bars.
There is a little lever (almost a button) which changes down. This is on the side of the Brifter (not parallel to the brake lever as on my Wayfarer).
I recall the gear change working but we are looking back 10 or more years since I rode it and broke the chain.

Front derailleur is marked "105" but I assume that there is a bit more detail hidden somewhere like most FD.

Current issue - the FD seems to change up 4 times, which is obviously not right.
I think this must be bottom, middle, middle trim, top.
Highest position fouls the pedal and biggest front cog.
Positions L, M and M+ seem to match the gear positions.
The downside is that changing down has only 3 clicks, so I could change from L to M to M+ and get onto the big front cog, but one poke of the down shift takes me back to the smallest cog.
So middle ring from top ring is down then up one.
Workable but not ideal.

Is it likely that there is a current FD with less travel which would work as a replacement for the 105?
I don't know how much variation there is on the total travel of the FD between different models.

Pictures, measurement etc. to be supplied.
This is just the start of a thread to pose the basic question before more detail.
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by colin54 »

Hi, Have you lubricated the new Brifters yet ?
The normal first thing to try with these, is spray some WD40 or similar into the internals, and then work back and forth (without a cable attached), to dissolve any build up of hardened grease on the internals. If that sorts the issue, re-lubricate with some spray grease ( semi- fluid ideally) or oil. I'm not familiar with the trim feature; but the above solved a changing issue on a pair of RSX 3x7 STI's I have which had a similar fault.
You might also try adjusting the mech from a slack cable start, just a little clearance on the small chain ring, it sounds like the cable could be too tight if it's flying straight back down to the inner ring and missing the middle on the way down. If it's been sat for ages check the control cable is free by disconnecting an giving it a tug whilst working the control at the handlebar.
If the original bike came with a triple you shouldn't need to change the front derailleur.
Here are a couple of links to 105 shifters and a 105 derailleur (probably not the model that you have but has some fault finding info on it, specifically missing the middle ring on the downward change .

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/stor ... 00-ENG.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/stor ... 00-ENG.pdf
If you have further problems it would be useful to list the model number of the units, you have, or are fitting, so that people who with more knowledge than me can say if you have a mismatch of components;.
The front derailleur model number is normally found on the inside of the inner cage of the mech, shift lever number is possibly on the inside of one of the brake levers (?).

Good luck.
Last edited by colin54 on 4 Dec 2021, 8:44pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nu-Fogey
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by LittleGreyCat »

I've treated it with GT85 although it is still a little stiff.

My concern is that the FD moves too far across on 3 clicks.
I assume that it should not have that much travel.
Not an issue with friction shifters but indexed shifters are a different matter.

I am wondering if the Brifter is not really compatible with the FD - the cable pull is too long - and it is so long ago that I can't remember if the "down and up" to get the middle ring was an understood compromise or if something has changed.

I may need a FD with shorter travel but a longer cable pull, if this makes sense.

I don't really fancy shelling out for a new Brifter with a shorter cable pull which seems to b e an alternative.
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by colin54 »

Apologies I edited my post whilst you were replying to it, have a read including the edit with the Shimano links and see if any thing there makes sense to you, it might be wise not to get into buying replacement parts before you understand the issue completely.
Edit : re shifter model number
These are located by peeling back the lever rubbers, the number is cast into the body.
P1160221.JPG
Edit 2 ; Brucey started this post about servicing 7/8 speed STI levers, it's in the too good to lose section and may be of use.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124472
Nu-Fogey
rogerzilla
Posts: 2876
Joined: 9 Jun 2008, 8:06pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by rogerzilla »

They sound like Sora ST-3300. Available in 7 or 8 speed, double or triple.
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by colin54 »

rogerzilla wrote: 4 Dec 2021, 8:17pm They sound like Sora ST-3300. Available in 7 or 8 speed, double or triple.
Something like those in these instructions Roger ? (I missed the description of the 'little lever almost a button' in the original post, good spot) , Sora sounds more like what the OP has fitted.
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/stor ... 00-ENG.pdf
Nu-Fogey
Jamesh
Posts: 2963
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by Jamesh »

What model is the FD do the shimano original shifters have the trim function. Isn't that a 5700> feature????

Cheers James
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by colin54 »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 4 Dec 2021, 6:49pm

.....and a cartridge bottom bracket because the original BB was well thrashed.
This was fitted but then work ceased.


Highest position fouls the pedal and biggest front cog.
I assume you mean the FD outer cage is fouling the crank; I wonder if your replacement bottom bracket is the correct length for the front derailleur fitted.
It sounds like you may have multiple issues, adjustments / component mismatches possibly, if you could list the numbers as I mentioned above when you find them, and go from there, you may need to measure the replacement bottom bracket over the ends of the spindle - remove cranks; (or compare it to the old one if you still have it) if adjustment / lubrication etc doesn't fix it.
Nu-Fogey
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by colin54 »

Jamesh wrote: 4 Dec 2021, 9:53pm What model is the FD do the shimano original shifters have the trim function. Isn't that a 5700> feature????

Cheers James
If LGC lists the numbers we'll know one way or another.
There is a trim function on the Sora; see bottom LH corner of the tech doc .
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/stor ... 00-ENG.pdf
Nu-Fogey
Jamesh
Posts: 2963
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by Jamesh »

Well you learn something every day!

I suppose I've been setting them up wrong for years!

I only learnt about trim on 4700 I build up recently...

Cheers James
TheBomber
Posts: 520
Joined: 16 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by TheBomber »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 4 Dec 2021, 7:28pm I am wondering if the Brifter is not really compatible with the FD
The first pair of STIs I ever fitted were RSX (2 x 7) onto a bike with downtube shifters and an RX100 groupset. I also had to change the front mech as the cable pull was wrong for an STI. If you can read the model number from your 105 mech it might be possible to confirm whether it is compatible. It should be stamped onto the left side of the left cage plate.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16034
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by 531colin »

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124598 front shifter trim clicks by model....by Brucey, from too good to lose
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Front is ST3304
Rear is ST3300

Quite hard to find as small writing and under bar tape as well as the rubber.

From the Brucy link (still reading):

"Sora triple (ST-3304) is a variant on class 1, (lets call it Class 1d), in which there is a trim click on the small chainring position, that is accessible from the small chainring position only. There are no trim clicks on the middle and big rings. (This presumably comes from the same mindset as gives us class 1b, in which there are extra trim clicks on the small chainring)."
TheBomber
Posts: 520
Joined: 16 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by TheBomber »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 5 Dec 2021, 1:43pm Front is ST3304
Rear is ST3300
I meant the front mech model number - which should start ‘FD’ - in order to try and determine if it came from an STI era groupset. They can also be hard to read when the mech is on the bike.
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Dawes Galaxy refurbish - old Brifters - 105 FD

Post by LittleGreyCat »

TheBomber wrote: 5 Dec 2021, 1:53pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 5 Dec 2021, 1:43pm Front is ST3304
Rear is ST3300
I meant the front mech model number - which should start ‘FD’ - in order to try and determine if it came from an STI era groupset. They can also be hard to read when the mech is on the bike.
I am reasonably sure that the FD is pre-STI.
Could well be original to the bike.
This suggests that a new FD could be an option if I can find one which is compatible.

I am going forwards, backwards and sideways at the moment.

I started today with the FD clearing the big ring but the inside of the cage fouling the inside of the ring once the outside of the cage had cleared it.

Noting the suggestions about lubrication, I undid the cable from the FD and lubricated everything.
This did demonstrate that the cable was very sticky.
I also noted that the cable was under tension when on the lowest ring.
I have put lubricant on all the moving parts of the FD several times.

Things now move more easily, but now the FD will not clear the largest chain ring, when it did before all the lubrication and the refitting of the cable in the clamp.
If I was starting from scratch I would move the FD upwards a bit to clear the big ring, but it was clearing it earlier today and I haven't moved the FD clamp on the frame.

I can see me having to remove the FD if I can't resolve this, but this just takes me back a step again.
Just need to....then something which was working is no longer working.

Time to step away for a bit.
Post Reply