DT Revolution spokes

[Freddie]

I'm thinking of using these spokes to drop about 200g off the weight of a typical wheelset. I'm wondering though, are they particularly difficult to build into wheels and are there any reasons I should give them a miss? I weigh about 13 stone and was thinking of lacing them into H Plus Son TB14 rims and whatever reasonably lightweight Shimano hubs I have lying around. The rear wheel will be 130mm OLD, probably an 8 speed hub (if I can source one).

So, will these wheels be suitable or will they deflect too much to the sides out of the saddle? Anything else to consider? (save their outrageous cost in the UK)

[Valbrona]

I just would not use these with low spoke count.

[fastpedaller]

Are they (the spokes) really likely to save that much weight? I've search and found them, to see that they are DB spokes with 1.5mm section, 'regular' db spokes are 16gauge, which is 1.5875. I suspect the weight saving is, in the main, due to the use of alloy nipples (rather than chrome plated brass), so to save the outrageous cost, why not just use alloy nipples with standard db spokes?
Personally I'd prefer the brass ones myself, but I'm old-fashioned and still use 36 spokes and 7 speed cassette!

[Freddie]

I wasn't going to use them with a low spoke count, but rather 36 spokes front and rear. My thinking is that the wheels would still keep usable true if I lost a spoke or two this way, whilst being a little bit lighter in weight. They are expensive in the UK, but other places do them much cheaper. I had a link, that I can no longer find, showing that 72 spokes results in a difference of about 200g between Revolution and Competition spokes with the same nipples.

[Keezx]

DT indicates a weight difference of 161 Gr. (no indication of spoke count)
IMO completely wasted money with a not so light rim like TB14, you'll notice no difference.

[Freddie]

OK, but the difference would only be £8 for two wheels worth of spokes bought from Rose DE, so it wouldn't be much money wasted. Are these spokes a bugger to build with though?

[Keezx]

So cheap at Rose.de?
Must take a look.....
Anyway , need a lot of attention during tensioning because of wind-up.

[stewartpratt]

I'm 14 stone, and I built my summer bike wheels with Revs (but with Comps on the rear drive side). 32 spoke radial front, 32 spoke radial/3x rear. Alloy nipples, with brass on the rear drive side. I've been riding them for nearly five years and they've been absolutely fine. As long as you can competently back off a spoke whenever you add tension, Revs seem to be no problem to build with.

As noted above, though, you can get a lighter rim, which will make more difference. The wheels I mention above are using Ambrosio Excellight SSCs. Same price, but about 160g lighter for the pair, I think. (But narrower, so may not be what you're after, depending on your tyre choice.)

[Brucey]

stewartpratt's wheels seem like a good arrangement to me, but realistically if you build the same wheels but you use competition spokes with alloy nipples (except for the DS rear with brass nipples) then the wheelset might only be 80g heavier or something.

My favoured summer wheels use light rims in 32h, alloy nipples throughout, DT competition spokes all round, and don't suffer a severe tension imbalance at the rear. I built the rear hub about 132.5mm wide and reduced the DS spacing to an absolute minimum, which gives a dish that is about the same (or perhaps slightly better even) vs a 135mm/9s hub. With light tubes, rim tapes and tyres, they ride really well.

cheers

[Freddie]

I am by the sea, so my worry with alloy nipples is that they won't like all the salt. The reason I went for the the TB14 is because the wheels are going on an 80's frame and I couldn't find anything lighter than didn't look completely unsuitable. The Mavic Open Pro seems a fair bit lighter (though not as attractive), opinions?

[RRSODL]

I'm thinking of using these spokes to drop about 200g off the weight of a typical wheelset. I'm wondering though, are they particularly difficult to build into wheels and are there any reasons I should give them a miss? I weigh about 13 stone and was thinking of lacing them into H Plus Son TB14 rims and whatever reasonably lightweight Shimano hubs I have lying around. The rear wheel will be 130mm OLD, probably an 8 speed hub (if I can source one).

So, will these wheels be suitable or will they deflect too much to the sides out of the saddle? Anything else to consider? (save their outrageous cost in the UK)

You can build the front wheel with DT Revolution spokes but I would not recommended for the rear wheel. 24 Revoltion spokes with the Archetype would be fine.

Now, you are trying to save 200g and then you want to use Shimano hubs. Shimano hubs are very good but 105 or even Ultegra and you are looking at about 500g per set. If you were to use something like Novatec A171 and F172 for similar cost you would save maybe 150g.

[Brucey]

I am by the sea, so my worry with alloy nipples is that they won't like all the salt. The reason I went for the the TB14 is because the wheels are going on an 80's frame and I couldn't find anything lighter than didn't look completely unsuitable. The Mavic Open Pro seems a fair bit lighter (though not as attractive), opinions?

I'm not sure that being near the sea will by itself guarantee corrosion, it depends what you do with the bike. Riding in the wintertime will cause corrosion for sure, because of road salt. Any risk of corrosion is greatly reduced if you run waxoyl (or similar) around the nipples once the wheels are built, using heat (eg a hairdryer) to run it in.

BTW if you are worried about corrosion, a rim with a polished finish is going to be maintenance intensive. They do look nice when they are freshly polished though.

The thing is that the 80's covers a multitude of possibilities; at the beginning of the decade most road bikes would definitely be in sprints and tubs. If you had training wheels they might have Mavic Module E2 rims on (440g) and with 'open tubulars' fitted these make a passable imitation of a sprint rim, shape-wise.
Mid 80's some TT race wheels were appearing with aero sprint rims but roadies were still on GP4s, SSCs, Monthlery Route, Monthlery Pro, etc. Training wheels got the Mavic MA2 which looks nothing like a sprint rim.
At the end of the decade there were aero sprint rims for road racing, and for training the Open4CD was the thing.
Other rims worth a look from that time are Super Champion 'Gentleman' rims (which later became the Mavic MA2) Mavic FB190 (a cheap rim with a similar shape to the O4CD) Mavic G40 (an E2 with dark anodising) an MA40 ( an MA2 with dark anodising) and the Rigida AL1320 (a polished rim about the same shape as O4CD).

Similarly bikes started out the decade with 6s friction shifting groupsets (campag Nuovo record, super record, Dura-Ace 7300, with exposed cables) but by the end of the decade we had 8s index groupsets with aero levers.

I think open pros will look OK (not perfect, but OK) on a late '80s build, but for an early '80s build a good pair of module E2 rims would look about right, if you can find any worth building with. You can buy replacement stickers for these rims.

The earlier pattern of sticker lacked the green band.

For hubs, modern shimano hubs will look all wrong. Mavic hubs had a particular chunky look to them but both shimano and campag hubs all had slim barrels in the 80s. If you can find a set of shimano RX-100 hubs (which are really a late 80's/ 90s hub for the most part) they will polish up nicely and be a passable imitation of an 80s hub once the stickers are removed.


There are many other shimano models that look similar including Deore LX and DX hubs.

Shimano 6400 hubs started out with 6/7s Uniglide bodies and ended the decade with 8s models (eventually becoming FH-6402) . Shimano 105 models looked similar but had a polished finish where 6400 hubs were anodised. Campag were starting to do their own cassette hubs too.

To my mind early 80s wheels are different beasts to late 80s wheels. Early 80s wheels would be 120 or 126mm (and mostly screw-on freewheels 5s or 6s) but late 80s kit would more likely be a cassette hub of some kind in 126mm or 130mm, 7s or 8s. So depending on what level of authenticity you want and which end of the decade you are aiming for you could have very different wheels.

cheers

[Freddie]

Brucey, thank you for your comprehensive reply. The frame is from '81 and I want to keep everything looking reasonably correct (stylistically, at least) with regards to the wheels. I think I might be able to squeeze 32mm tyres into the frame, so think I need rims of at least 15mm internal width. I don't want anything anodised and wouldn't mind period rims, it is, as you say, just a case of finding some that look nice and aren't really worn. I suppose the same can be said of period hubs; I always seem to end up with pitted cups and cones . I'd prefer to run a 7/8 speed cassette hub, even if it not period correct, as long as it looks reasonable.

I may at some point fit STIs and dual pivot brakes, so I am not rigid about period stuff, but it must look correct as far as possible.

BTW, what would you recommend stem wise for a lightweight of this vintage? I have a GB stem from probably 10 years prior fitted atm, it looks quite nice, but what would have been typical (and silver) for the time.

[RJC]

No personal experience of 1.5mm mid section spokes but Gerd Schraner says in his wheel building book that after some bad experiences he won't use anything less than 2.0/1.8/2.0mm and brass nipples on the rear drive side. I guess the main issue is spoke wind up.

Robin

[Brucey]

re stems; On a quality machine cinelli 1A stem (26.4 clamp) would be a popular choice back then but otherwise ITM, or GB.

Obviously it depends on the bike; a French bike might have had some dodgy Atax stem on it.

I must say that if you are going for period correct on an '81 bike it ought to be friction shifting, IMHO STIs would just be all wrong, like putting dodgy tats & piercings on the Mona Lisa or something.

cheers