WHICH WHEELS

[paultheagle]

i have always found the advice on this site useful so hopefully help me again !

I've had my kinesis tripster atr for about 2 years now and although very happy with my "one bike does it all" - i'm thinking its time to upgrade some parts, naturally the first biggie is the wheels...

i'm currently riding the standard kinesis cx crosslight disc clinchers, 28 spoke front and back, 24 mm wide 22 mm deep, hubs were kinesis own aluminium sealed bearing with standard 6 bolt mounting - weight is around 1800 g. they have been impressively smooth and have stayed true - i run conti gp 4s pretty much all year, sometimes swapping for schwalbe one's for summer months - both on 28's.

my style of riding is 80 % road - 20% gravel/dirt road, downs link/avenue verte sort of stuff, i also do a bit of light touring with tubus on (tent/sleep kit etc) and have short bike for commute.

so my goal is to get an upgrade to a lighter faster set, maybe just a bit less rolling resistance on the tarmac and easier for climbs wile still being able to cope with the light off road/trail stuff i do and to support a bit of light touring (say 20 kg max), i am also tempted to go tubeless as this seems to fit the gravel/adventure bike profile well IMO and quite fancy the new pro one tubeless...

my own research has led me to 2 sets up to and around £700 catagory:

Fulcrum - 2016 Racing 5 LG Disc Wheels - http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/collect ... acing-5-LG

mavic ksyrium pro disc all road, which come with Yksion Elite Allroad in 30mm tyres fitted http://www.mavic.co.uk/wheels-road-tria ... sc-allroad

any thoughts comments/experience on the above or any possible alternative suggestions much appreciated !

[honesty]

Have you had a look at Hunt Wheels? they are getting good write ups and come in about 1600g. I think the current version of the Kinesis wheels come in at around that weight as well. Both are tubeless ready and around the £300 mark as well. I have no experience of Mavic wheels, but from what I have read here getting spoke replacements can be an absolute pain.

[Young@Heart]

These are excellent value and slightly lighter than the mavic wheels. They also benefit from having easily (and cheaply) available replacement spokes and cartridge bearings. You can expect to pay up to £15 for a replacement Mavic spoke!!!

£349:

http://www.huntbikewheels.com/collectio ... less-ready

[Brucey]

I can just about see the logic in wanting lighter wheels when you are doing day rides etc but am I the only one who sees a contradiction in wanting to use such wheels when loaded with 20kg of touring gear?

All things being equal (which admittedly they are not, always...) wheels start reducing in strength quite quickly once you lighten them past a certain point. For example just reducing the spoke count from (say) 32 to 28 might save 30g or so but reduces some aspects of the wheel strength by over 10%; not a good trade IMHO.

Mavic put a lot engineering into their wheels but if there is a flaw it is that the spokes in some models are not easily sourced as others have pointed out. In any of these wheels if you lose a spoke you are likely in the poop; I'd suggest that when touring with a load on you should carry spare spokes, especially if the wheel goes so far out when one breaks that you risk rubbing through the tyre or something. Some wheelsets with minimal spokes can suffer permanent damage (rim takes a new set) when a spoke breaks.

You don't say what kind of mileage you do, how long you expect the wheels to last, how hard you ride or how heavy you are, or indeed if you keep your bike clean in the wintertime (washing off winter road salt); all these things can affect wheel choice (aluminium nipples are just a liability in the wintertime). FWIW in your situation I'd keep a set of wheels (and tyres) for loaded/winter work and a different set for unladen/summer riding. If I were really interested in saving weight, I mightn't have got a disc braked bike to start with, either, but that is just me.

cheers

[Keezx]

Agree with Brucey...lighter wheels won't make you any faster, almost no differece climbing and will compromise durability.
In general.

[paultheagle]

OK everybody - thank you for the sage advice...

i must admit at being intrigued at the prospect of getting a set hand made (who wants to look like everybody else) - particularly if this isn't that cost restrictive, in a relative sense...

but i really wouldn't know where to start - any recommendations as to reputable wheel maker and the sort of spec i should be looking at ?

[paultheagle]

I can just about see the logic in wanting lighter wheels when you are doing day rides etc but am I the only one who sees a contradiction in wanting to use such wheels when loaded with 20kg of touring gear?

All things being equal (which admittedly they are not, always...) wheels start reducing in strength quite quickly once you lighten them past a certain point. For example just reducing the spoke count from (say) 32 to 28 might save 30g or so but reduces some aspects of the wheel strength by over 10%; not a good trade IMHO.

Mavic put a lot engineering into their wheels but if there is a flaw it is that the spokes in some models are not easily sourced as others have pointed out. In any of these wheels if you lose a spoke you are likely in the poop; I'd suggest that when touring with a load on you should carry spare spokes, especially if the wheel goes so far out when one breaks that you risk rubbing through the tyre or something. Some wheelsets with minimal spokes can suffer permanent damage (rim takes a new set) when a spoke breaks.

You don't say what kind of mileage you do, how long you expect the wheels to last, how hard you ride or how heavy you are, or indeed if you keep your bike clean in the wintertime (washing off winter road salt); all these things can affect wheel choice (aluminium nipples are just a liability in the wintertime). FWIW in your situation I'd keep a set of wheels (and tyres) for loaded/winter work and a different set for unladen/summer riding. If I were really interested in saving weight, I mightn't have got a disc braked bike to start with, either, but that is just me.

cheers

Brucey - in answer to your questions....

about 300-400 on ave when touring, no idea on life expectancy but my current cx wheels are 2 years in and look good, i am around 82 kg, i'm not sure about how hard i ride but according to Garmin - averaged around 12 -14 mph when touring, yes i keep a clean machine - not a dirty nipple in sight !

[honesty]

I had my last wheel built by SJS cycles. They have some rather nice options, like Hope hubs and SON dynamos. Spa is very good as well, though never used them for wheels.

As an example for lightweight disc touring wheels (I make no recommendation on parts here by the way, just picking from the list!)

DT Swiss X470 rims £39.99 each. 470g
Hope Evo 2 front hub £56.99. 185g
Hope Evo2 rear hub £149.99. 285g
Wheel build with competition spokes. £39.88. 311g for 64.

Total price - £366.72
Weight - 1721g (plus rim tape on top)

You could probably cut a hundred or so grams by going for an even lighter rim, but strength when loaded my then be an issue.

[mig]

i'd ask around for a recommended local wheel builder or google someone like harry rowland. handbuilt wheel can be better specced and made every bit as light as machine built ones plus, as always stated, they're usually more easily repairable and re-rimmed.

neither mavic nor fulcrum have seen you, your bike and heard your type of riding so they build to a 'general' level. a local wheel builder can do all these things so can build specifically.

[robinlh]

The only things to worry about when you choose touring wheels,and this is a CTC forum,are durability,durability,and durability.
In practise,as Spa will tell you a pair of Exall LX17s properly built on LX 36 spoke hubs are as butch as you need to go.
I do have lighter wheels,mostly built by me for fun,but they would be a pain in the posterior on a tour.
Further,when I swap for the light ones on Betty the Audax all I actually notice is the pain in the posterior because they don't ride as well.
This is not a racing forum,why does anyone wish to make their pleasure riding uncomfortably unpleasant?
Fashion.
R

[bohrsatom]

I used Harry Rowland last year - he built me some 36 spoke touring wheels and I've been very impressed with them. I wasn't sure what I wanted (other than 36h) and he suggested rims, hubs and spokes to match my requirements and price. All in all I'd definitely recommend getting in touch with him!

[MikeF]

I can just about see the logic in wanting lighter wheels when you are doing day rides etc but am I the only one who sees a contradiction in wanting to use such wheels when loaded with 20kg of touring gear?

Or for riding Avenue Verte (especially the East Sussex section Forest Row to Groombridge) or Downs Link.
These wheels seem extremely expensive - £700. Do they really make that much difference for most cyclists? Is it more hype and one upmanship than anything else - I tend to think it is, but no doubt someone will correct me.
My wheels are unique and not like anyone else's..... they were built by me.

Tyres however do seem to make a difference to ride and speed.