The Genesis Vagabond is nice...

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
User avatar
smuggers
Posts: 357
Joined: 3 Aug 2014, 6:58pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Nice...

Postby smuggers » 21 Apr 2016, 11:07am

Anybody picked one of these up yet ?? Been struggling to find any in stock at local bike shops & would rather put my leg over one before deciding on a small or medium frame. Initially thought about a complete bike, but the frameset is seriously tempting me.. ( Nothing to do with the colour - honest ) :D Would be a great project and no doubt make a great roughstuff tourer.. Have thrown the "this could be the only bike I need", at my better half & I think she's coming round to the idea...Not sellling any of my other bikes though !!! Although I may sell the Boardman Hybrid, I use to commute to work, to soften her up a bit...smirk !!

Back to the Vagabond.. Anybody know what size I may need ?? I'm 5ft 7", with a 30" inside leg.. Really dont want to order a frameset with sitting on one first..

Regards

Smuggers
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells

malvern rider
Posts: 21
Joined: 9 Apr 2009, 9:32pm
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire

Re: Nice...

Postby malvern rider » 13 May 2016, 11:18pm

^ I've also been through 'the only bike I ever need' scenario :lol:

So, a deposit is down on the Vagabond. I tried it and liked it instantly. A medium fittted me like the proverbial glove. (5'10" - 31.5" inseam, shortish arms)

I got lucky enough to try one out for size for two and a bit days. 'Like' soon grew to 'want'. It just feels so right for what I like doing - which is dawdling around lanes, bridleways, 20km B road fitness blasts, long loaded tours over moorland, woodland and minor roads, and, finally - dicking about in the woods/singletrack and coastal paths.

A bit of everything, albeit non-competitive. I'm selling my Cannondale tourer and Gt hardtail to help fund this so it's a big commitment, yet I really feel like it's the best of both worlds. I'll partly miss hammering along on a hardtail, and I'll somewhat miss the long-legged dialled-in mega-distance touring capabilities of the 'Dale. But the Vagabond was just so much fun on and off road that I can't think about other bikes. All I can think about is this one bike that feels 'right'. So I'm hooning along the smooth-surface of the Tarka trail one evening, then next second I'm hopping it up a kerb, over an earth mound, down into ruts and rocks, over a wet grass mound and roll out to jump over some driftwood. Then sitting outside the pub admiring the sparkling blue paint and svelte stays over a pint. Frankenbike - I think I love you.

Let me try and explain why the Vagabond did it for me personally. Here's the theory:

- My first road bike (when a teen) was a custom-built (steel) Carlton Cyclone (coincidentally a very similar met blue to the 2016 Vagabond). It had downtube shifters (2x5) and 'cissy' brakes (levers) as we called them.

- My first ATB/MTB was a rigid Dawes (Reynolds 501) offering equipped with Deore and thumbshifters

Both, I suppose, were good examples of solidly made, slightly exciting (for me), dependable, mid-range bikes that were simple, confidence-inspiring and good at what they were supposed to do.

The Vagabond somewhow combines/captures and improves everything I most enjoyed with those my (modest) entries into the world of cycling everywhere. By comparison, the Vagabond also slightly lightens the whole shebang, gives me my drops back, gives me more fixing points for water and luggage, puts discs on those big-rolling wheels, makes it more flickable offroad yet somehow stable on the road - then seals the deal with some gnarly 2.1s. I couldn't be happier if I'd been given a workshop and designed a personalised/bespoke One Bike To Rule Them All. It feels like it wants to go all day everywhere at a fair clip whilst not beating you up in the process. Long-term review will happen. Now ... :roll: the wait

Milfred Cubicle
Posts: 311
Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 8:55am
Location: Co. Durham

Re: Nice...

Postby Milfred Cubicle » 22 Jul 2016, 9:29am

I managed to get one quite early, so have had mine around six months. One of the best bikes I've ever owned. It's spent most of its time in touring mode so far, but has been off road a bit. Really stable loaded, discs come into their own when carrying extra weight. Despite the slack angles and the fact that it's not the lightest thing, it's still sprightly enough on the road. Just a lovely, no fuss, get out on your bike machine. Love it.

robc02
Posts: 1748
Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 7:12pm
Location: Stafford

Re: Nice...

Postby robc02 » 23 Jul 2016, 11:26am

Here's the surprise:- Disc Trucker(assuming medium) frame= 2.25kg,fork=0.97kg.
The DT figures I'm taking with a pinch of salt TBH.


Are those the figures Surly are quoting now? :o They used to say something like 2.34 kg for LHT and 2.6kg DT with forks about 1.1kg. I weighed my 58cm LHT when I bought it a couple of years ago and, from memory, the frame was about 2.4 - 2.5kg and forks 1.1kg.

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jul 2016, 11:47am

robc02 wrote:
Here's the surprise:- Disc Trucker(assuming medium) frame= 2.25kg,fork=0.97kg.
The DT figures I'm taking with a pinch of salt TBH.


Are those the figures Surly are quoting now? :o They used to say something like 2.34 kg for LHT and 2.6kg DT with forks about 1.1kg. I weighed my 58cm LHT when I bought it a couple of years ago and, from memory, the frame was about 2.4 - 2.5kg and forks 1.1kg.


I dunno they're what I got off their website at the time.I had a DT fork fitted to me Kona Dew Drop(now sold) with the steerer uncut it weighed 1.1kg IIRC
-----------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12504
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Nice...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Jul 2016, 11:50am

Hi,
R2 for me the drops are out of place with the tyres 1st link, Isn't that a mtb with drops?
2nd link I would not like to show for everyone to see that sub standard (I say mig but could be tiq) welding, that's not good marketing, its cold fusion (blobbing) at best, seat stays.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jul 2016, 1:03pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
R2 for me the drops are out of place with the tyres 1st link, Isn't that a mtb with drops?

Yep,it is an MTB with drops but what's wrong with that? :? IMO that's it's versatility,and if you wanted straights of some kind go up a sized for some extra reach,the SO is low enough across the range :)
If you have a spare pair of wheels with big 50mm slicks,say Big Apples or similar fitted,it would be a very good dual purpose machine,in fact BA's run at very low psi's would do most rough stuff unless proper mudplugging :)
TBH the only flaw with it IMHO,there isn't enough room behind the seattube for m/guard clearance with the 2.1inch knobblies fitted.

2nd link I would not like to show for everyone to see that sub standard (I say mig but could be tiq) welding, that's not good marketing, its cold fusion (blobbing) at best, seat stays.

I agree the weld on the L/H seat stay looks a leettle rough but it could be the photo,but I take your point.
FWIW the welds on my Genesis Longitude are as neat as anything else I've seen ,same story on the Salsa's :)

EDIT:- FWIW when out and about I've seen some pretty extreme straight H/bars on MTB's some as wide as 800mm and 750mm not rare,these things are dead straight and usually set low,they look extremely uncomfortable,potentially dangerous even,on wooded single track or serious technical descents,with no alternative hand position.
The Bugels on my GL are 660mm with a 34 degree back sweep and are quite wide enough for any terrain.Drops set with default position being the drops,are very comfortable especially climbing,with extra positions to be used as and when.
Last edited by reohn2 on 23 Jul 2016, 2:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----------------------------------------------------------

pete75
Posts: 13696
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nice...

Postby pete75 » 23 Jul 2016, 1:22pm

If I was in the market for a machine like that I think I'd stump up a just a little bit more and go for this http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3104 ... rop-Bar%29 but I'm not because I built something v similar using a rigid MTB frame.

pete75
Posts: 13696
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Nice...

Postby pete75 » 23 Jul 2016, 1:28pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
R2 for me the drops are out of place with the tyres 1st link, Isn't that a mtb with drops?


Orbit Romany, Orbit Caraway, Dawes Sardar , Dawes One Down - all highly regarded with their demise lamented and all basically an MTB with drops.

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jul 2016, 2:23pm

pete75 wrote:If I was in the market for a machine like that I think I'd stump up a just a little bit more and go for this http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3104 ... rop-Bar%29 but I'm not because I built something v similar using a rigid MTB frame.


But do you think it warrants the extra expense?
A pure personal opinion is that Ti is overkill for such a machine,I just don't see the gain unless it's sub 11kg and I don't think it is.
If the Spa Adv was steel it'd be a good contender and probably priced similarly to the Gen Vag,If Spa got the colour/graphics right it'd be a winner,all IMO of course.
-----------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12504
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Nice...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Jul 2016, 6:58pm

Hi,
I am no expert on this cross stuff, little bit fashion I think.
But is this MTB (not followed the posts closley :( ) with drop geometry complete with off road steering or is it a roadie with big tyres or is it something completely different.

Basic mtbs are a pig on fast corners, 40 plus sent me drifting on the way to work, my tourer on an off road course with old aero hoods means brakes have to be used whilst on the drops and 460 bars are way too narrow to man handle the heap at speed :( geometry not good either?.......creases me abb's next day :?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jul 2016, 12:05am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I am no expert on this cross stuff, little bit fashion I think.
But is this MTB (not followed the posts closley :( ) with drop geometry complete with off road steering or is it a roadie with big tyres or is it something completely different.

It's basically touring geometry with huge clearances,so it's stable and capable of MTB type terrain:-

Vagabond Geometry
FRAME SIZES S M L XL
1 - Horizontal Toptube Length (mm) 541 567 593 614
2 - Seat Angle (°) 72.5 72.5 72.5 72.5
3 - Headtube Length (mm) 150 170 190 210
4 - Head Angle (°) 71 71 71 71
5 - Seat Tube Length (C-T, mm) 430 460 490 520
6 - BB Drop (mm) 73 73 73 73
7 - Chainstay Length (mm) 445 445 445 445
8 - Fork Offset (mm) 55 55 55 55
9 - Trail (mm) 67 67 67 67
10 - Wheelbase Length (mm) 1029 1056 1082 1104
11 - Standover (mm) 775 796 830 839
12 - Stack (mm ) 589 608 627 646
13 - Reach (mm) 355 375 395 410
Stem (mm) 100 100 100 100
Handlebar (mm) 420 420 440 440
Crankarm (mm) 170 175 175 175

Basic mtbs are a pig on fast corners, 40 plus sent me drifting on the way to work,

? :? My GL has 68degree head angle and 55mm offset,no problems with steering,point and shoot is how I'd describe it,stable as a stable thing on the roughest track slow or at speed.
my tourer on an off road course with old aero hoods means brakes have to be used whilst on the drops and 460 bars are way too narrow to man handle the heap at speed :( geometry not good either?.......creases me abb's next day :?

I don't understand this.
I've ridden 46cm drops on tandems at speed,a couple with fast steering a couple with relaxed steering,similarly so solos,after a days riding you get get used to whatever you're sat on.The problem is at slow speed IME and that's with fast/twitchy/quick steering not the stable ones with slow/stable/relaxed steering.
I've never had any steering trouble my stomach muscles.
-----------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12504
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Nice...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Jul 2016, 1:15am

Hi,
Sorry I should of said "Basic mtbs are a pig on fast corners On the road"

Must be me on the tourer, the course off road isn't that hard, its just that it has lots of bends and trees to dodge, I tried it at speed, previously doing it on my MTB.
Having to ride a 15 mile course with drops 8 " below the saddle took its toll that day along with the 35 mile training ride.
I found it impossible to put my hands anywhere but the drops and I had to because you needed to pull the brakes not thumbs on hoods.
It wouldn't steer that well either.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

SpannerGeek
Posts: 722
Joined: 12 Nov 2015, 2:16pm

Re: Nice...

Postby SpannerGeek » 24 Jul 2016, 7:48am

I would say a small for the Vagabond

reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jul 2016, 9:09am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Sorry I should of said "Basic mtbs are a pig on fast corners On the road"

Tyres?

Must be me on the tourer, the course off road isn't that hard, its just that it has lots of bends and trees to dodge, I tried it at speed, previously doing it on my MTB.
Having to ride a 15 mile course with drops 8 " below the saddle took its toll that day along with the 35 mile training ride.
I found it impossible to put my hands anywhere but the drops and I had to because you needed to pull the brakes not thumbs on hoods.
It wouldn't steer that well either.

Is that tops 8cm below saddle height?
If so I'm not surprised,it's pretty extreme for off road riding and puts all your weight on the hands,different folks,different strokes and all that but I prefer to have the tops of compact drop h/bars 4cm above the saddle and not too stretched out,it makes for relaxed riding especially on the drops,which I ride on quite a bit,especially technical sections.
-----------------------------------------------------------