The Genesis Vagabond is nice...

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reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 19 Nov 2015, 9:53pm

TBH I don't think it needs a triple(man takes cover)but the rings on the double are a bit big for me,I reckon 24-36 would be big enough :)
Or swap the chainset for a 22-32-44
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mrjemm
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Re: Nice...

Postby mrjemm » 20 Nov 2015, 9:02am

Just saw frameweight is 3.88kg for a medium. Surly Ogre is 2.693 (calc from 5lb 15oz) for a 20"... but, that is with fork, and am not sure for Ogre. The Ogre fork alone weighs 1.4kg uncut, but does have a lot more mounts as well as canti/V brake and disc mounts. ECR the same weight, but no canti/V mounts. ECR frame is 2.76kg.

reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 20 Nov 2015, 10:15am

Genesis frame weights:-
Vagabond = 3.88kg medium
Longitude = 3.94kg med
Croix de Fer = 3.83kg med
All inc headset & seatclamp.
Complete bike weights:-
Vagabond med=12.25kg
Longitude med=13.4kg
Croix de Fer med= 11.6kg

Surly:-
Can't see a weight for the Ogre
ECR=med frame 2.76kg,fork=1.147kg
Straggler= med frame=2.27kg fork= 1.05kg

Here's the surprise:- Disc Trucker(assuming medium) frame= 2.25kg,fork=0.97kg.
The DT figures I'm taking with a pinch of salt TBH.

Salsa:-
they only give a complete bike weight for the steel fork Fargo of 12.9kg
Vaya 55cm complete=12.6kg,which doesn't tally with mine(57cm) both of which weigh 12.2kg
My medium Longitude weighed almost the same at 12.5kg IIRC.
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reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 20 Nov 2015, 10:32am

TBH the more I look at this bike the more it looks like a Vaya killer(damn it!).
Buying the frameset,I can see a great build with two pair of wheels/tyres for different needs,IMHO it's got a lot going for,some one please find a flaw........
Even the colour is great :)

EDIT:- I take that back as it's a slightly different remit,but it'll make one heckova expedition/ruff stuff touring bike IMO
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mrjemm
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Re: Nice...

Postby mrjemm » 20 Nov 2015, 1:50pm

Getting worried R2. I think you're turning into a Genesis convert. Already troubles me that Keep Pedalling went Genesis when Salsa had a tiff with Ison and went without a UK distributor. At least they're still Surloids.

I just think Genesis bikes have a look that's 'not quite right', and all their bikes are catch-ups to various other manufacturers, but mostly QBP's brands.

I should add though, that besides the Vaya (and maybe the Deadwood?), I actually don't think much of Salsa's bikes these days. To me the Fargo was the Ogre's ugly cousin (even if it did come 1st). The Marakech is a dog and all that bloomin' carbon is just wrong. The Collosal has press-fit BB and too little clearance. The Warbird is Aluminium! :cry:

Whereas Surly, Soma and All-City make some very tastiful bicycles. Oh yes.

mrjemm
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Re: Nice...

Postby mrjemm » 20 Nov 2015, 1:59pm

reohn2 wrote:...almost Alice in Wonderland clearances are huge :)


Been wondering about the ref, and just saw these-

http://surlybikes.com/parts/rims/rabbit_hole

So indeed 'almost' Alice clearances, but not quite there, as these are too wide!

reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 20 Nov 2015, 2:18pm

mrjemm wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...almost Alice in Wonderland clearances are huge :)


Been wondering about the ref, and just saw these-

http://surlybikes.com/parts/rims/rabbit_hole

So indeed 'almost' Alice clearances, but not quite there, as these are too wide!


Oh! you're thinking waayy toooo deep down the rabbit hole,I meant Slack Alice,George Best's nightclub in Manchester or Larry Grayson's friend,but you maybe too young to remember :mrgreen:
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reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 20 Nov 2015, 2:41pm

mrjemm wrote:....I just think Genesis bikes have a look that's 'not quite right', and all their bikes are catch-ups to various other manufacturers, but mostly QBP's brands.

IMO they were slightly behind the curve but caught on PDQ,though the 2016 Longitude is a backward step IMHO,Though the Vag'(Kuhl eh?)is a step up to the plate(Freddie alert)or even bouncing(no sus,which=good)up and down on it,causing a dust( :) )
My GL's paint job(colour) could've been sooooo much better and I reckon they hit it with last years Caribou colour,though full fat is a bit to creamy for my taste,I do like the colour.But it's a strange thing as I didn't like the jaffa coloured Vaya which failed to Tango me,and I can't figure out exactly why :?

I should add though, that besides the Vaya (and maybe the Deadwood?), I actually don't think much of Salsa's bikes these days. To me the Fargo was the Ogre's ugly cousin (even if it did come 1st). The Marakech is a dog and all that bloomin' carbon is just wrong. The Collosal has press-fit BB and too little clearance. The Warbird is Aluminium! :cry:

Salsa are going off my radar screen a leettle bit with the CF and Alu,though they're probably appearing on someone else's......

Whereas Surly, Soma and All-City make some very tastiful bicycles. Oh yes.

Surly appeal because the make no nonsense honest to goodness bikes which is matched by the drab colours,'cept straggler purple alert or robin's egg blue, but are getting a bit pricey for what's on offer IMHO
Soma=nice but don't quuiittee hit the nail squarely for me though I can see they may do for others.
All-City,I've never got past the fork ends colour schemes so don't even check out anything else about them,I know I'm shallow,I'm not even ankle deep :?

Genesis seem to be offering framesets at reasonable prices and it's quite a while since purple made a big splash :) especially with the green decals,shallow,shallow,shallow,but at least my knees remain dry :mrgreen:.Though TBH for all the world the Vag's like last years GL with a nip and a tuck here and there,so it can't be at all bad :D
I can see it with Jones 'bars,On One Mary's,Midge's or plain old Woodchippers a solid Deore drivetrain and XT hubs no nonsense rims and black finiishing kit with green bar tape like this:- http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/bontr ... AmYr8P8HAQ and one of these saddles:- http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-c ... green1.jpg. (which is the same saddle Genesis fit to all their higher end bikes but with a different coloured sub base).BTW Baby Blue Vaya is adorned with a blue under bellied one.
Of course it must also ride as well as it looks :D
Last edited by reohn2 on 20 Nov 2015, 6:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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honesty
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Re: Nice...

Postby honesty » 20 Nov 2015, 3:26pm

I don't like what Salsa have turned the vaya into. I know the Marrakech has come along and they had to make room for it in their lineup, but I think the vaya travel is probably the apex of that product line.

reohn2
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Re: Nice...

Postby reohn2 » 20 Nov 2015, 3:56pm

honesty wrote:I don't like what Salsa have turned the vaya into. I know the Marrakech has come along and they had to make room for it in their lineup, but I think the vaya travel is probably the apex of that product line.


I don't know what you mean,the two steel Vaya offerings are what they've always been,solid midweight touring bikes that take mild to mid range rough stuff in their stride,IMO they do that very well.
Their stock groupsets are pretty standard affairs with some short falls,mainly lately double c/sets with no triple offerings,which is about par for the course,sadly.
I built both mine up to suit me personally,which is slightly niche but nothing to major or outlandish.
The Vaya travel was always going to be niche,good niche granted but still niche,ie;how many people do you know with S&S couplings?
It's most likely only the long(flight) haulers who consider such things,so it could never have been a volume sales pitch especially with it being offered only in Ti or S/S which added considerably to the cost.

The Marrakesh to me looks more like an LHT but with steeper angles and a fancy colour scheme/decal kit than anything :?
I can't see it selling in an great number whilst the LHT is alive and kicking,and doing pretty good job of it too :)
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mrjemm
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Re: Nice...

Postby mrjemm » 20 Nov 2015, 5:12pm

honesty wrote:...I think the vaya travel is probably the apex of that product line.


8)

reohn2 wrote:The Vaya travel was always going to be niche,good niche granted but still niche,ie;how many people do you know with S&S couplings?
It's most likely only the long(flight) haulers who consider such things,so it could never have been a volume sales pitch especially with it being offered only in Ti or S/S which added considerably to the cost.


The Vaya Ti wasn't a travel model, and didn't have the couplings or dolternators. Both the old and new Ti had dropouts like the original Vayas. Which I farrr prefer. Shame the old Ti had ovalised downtube, but the new'un doesn't, but it does have curbon forks. Ah well.

As for the couplings... They look interesting and all that, but add to the weight and I can't see me using them. Doesn't help that the cable guides are for full outers/hoses, so you can't use cable couplings! Stooopid.

The Marakesh is plain ugly. The LHT looks much better and doesn't have the ghastlies on the back end. Head tube wayyy too short too.

Did I mention that I hate alternators? I could swear a lot about those, but I'll let you just feel the heat of my wrath from a distance. The re-bar concrete wellies is for the designer of these... :evil:

Soma Wolverine. That'd be my choice. And those drop-outty things make more sense to me.

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honesty
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Re: Nice...

Postby honesty » 20 Nov 2015, 6:48pm

I was looking at the ti model and hadn't clocked that the other models still had the steel fork. Alternator dropouts I'm not sure are a good idea. Still triples would be good .

mrjemm
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Re: Nice...

Postby mrjemm » 20 Nov 2015, 7:28pm

honesty wrote:Alternator dropouts I'm not sure are a good idea.


People are learning. Good good.

p.s. Alternators are poo.

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smuggers
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Re: Nice...

Postby smuggers » 6 Mar 2016, 10:27pm

Really liking the Vagabond and it could be what I go for instead of a Fargo.. Have been looking at Surly ECR & Troll also.. Going to read some reviews and hopefully get to see these bikes in local stores, before making a choice.. The Genesis is looking the favourite though, mainly down to my budget.. Should make a great roughstuff tourer.. ☺
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. --H.G. Wells

Brucey
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Re: Nice...

Postby Brucey » 6 Mar 2016, 10:53pm

mrjemm wrote:
honesty wrote:Alternator dropouts I'm not sure are a good idea.


People are learning. Good good.

p.s. Alternators are poo.


what don't you like about them...?

cheers
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