New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

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Samuel D
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New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby Samuel D » 20 Nov 2015, 2:18pm

The website Bicycle Rolling Resistance has expanded into touring tyres at last. I like this site for its succinct tyre reviews, clear presentation, and seemingly accurate technical tests.

See the eight touring tyres tested here.

The Marathon gets a glowing review, justifying that tyre’s popularity. The lower the tyre pressure, the better it rolls versus the competition.

The Marathon Plus also gets five marks out of five for its minimal rolling-resistance penalty and great puncture protection. (This site doesn’t attempt to measure comfort.)

The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is notably absent. Hopefully that one will be tested soon. I expect great rolling resistance from the Hyper.

One surprise is the relatively poor rolling resistance of the Marathon Racer, which you might expect to handily beat the plain Marathon. Not so, apparently.

No doubt these tests will become more and more useful as other tyres are added.

beardy
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby beardy » 20 Nov 2015, 2:57pm

One surprise is the relatively poor rolling resistance of the Marathon Racer, which you might expect to handily beat the plain Marathon. Not so, apparently.


The tyres were different sizes, the Racer noticeably smaller than the plain Marathon. So the ordinary Marathon will have a rolling resistance advantage due to this at the same pressure. Of course you would run the Racer at a higher pressure and get a rolling resistance from somewhere else on the curve.

The curves on that graph will favour the fatter tyres in the test.

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kylecycler
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby kylecycler » 20 Nov 2015, 4:04pm

Does anyone know how the Marathon Greenguard compares with the Marathon HS368 (currently available from Spa Cycles for just over a tenner)?

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s142p1092

I'm guessing the HS368 was replaced by the Greenguard?

Brucey
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby Brucey » 21 Nov 2015, 12:57am

the greenguard tyre rolls easier than the Kevlar one, allegedly. This is slightly complicated by the fact that Kevlar belts do 'run in' more than some other tyre constructions; if you flex a well-used Kevlar reinforced tyre tread, it is very clearly a lit more flexible than an unused one. I don't think any tyre tests account for this in a reasonable way, since it may be several hundred miles before the tyre starts to work 'normally'. The different puncture proofing resists different types of penetrator differently, so it isn't clear cut that in the real world one tyre will always be better than another.

The fietsersbond tyre tests (which I have linked to previously in another thread here; http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99645&start=15)

already compare the vittoria hyper with the various marathons. The Marathons are low rolling resistance for their puncture resistance but are not a low Crr tyre per se; that accolade goes to the Vittorias. The fietsbond tests also measure ride quality. This is worse with a puncture-proof tyre at any given pressure, as is the Crr. If you set the pressure in Marathon Plus to give comparable ride quality to the Vittorias, you could find yourself working twice as hard to overcome rolling resistance when riding M+ vs the Vittorias.

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kylecycler
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby kylecycler » 21 Nov 2015, 11:25am

Thanks, Brucey.

Here's a direct link to your (very helpful!) translation of the Dutch site in the thread you linked to - it'll save folk struggling to make sense of the original, as I just did! :D :

viewtopic.php?p=929745#p929745

I have two Carrera Subways (don't ask - it only sometimes makes sense, even to me), both still on their original Kwik tyres. One has 559/26-inch wheels, the other 584/650B. I might run them until the Kwiks wear out, but the first I intend to build up as a tourer, as al_yrpal did to good effect a few years ago, the other as an 'everyday, do everything' bike. I'm limited for choice of 650B tyres, but Marathon Greenguards are available and appeal for that, especially given Samuel's link, but what do you or anyone else think would be best for either?

Planet X has the Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tyre (120 TPI casing and Double Shielding puncture protection) in 26-inch just now for £14.99 - is that as good as the Randonneur Hyper? (I know r2 posted what turned out to be a really interesting but l-o-o-o-o-ng thread about the Hypers, but it would save me reading through 16 pages, again!) :)

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVTRNDP/v ... lding-tyre

Rich_Clements
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby Rich_Clements » 21 Nov 2015, 11:37am

Samuel D wrote:The website Bicycle Rolling Resistance has expanded into touring tyres at last. I like this site for its succinct tyre reviews, clear presentation, and seemingly accurate technical tests.

See the eight touring tyres tested here.

The Marathon gets a glowing review, justifying that tyre’s popularity. The lower the tyre pressure, the better it rolls versus the competition.

The Marathon Plus also gets five marks out of five for its minimal rolling-resistance penalty and great puncture protection. (This site doesn’t attempt to measure comfort.)

The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is notably absent. Hopefully that one will be tested soon. I expect great rolling resistance from the Hyper.

One surprise is the relatively poor rolling resistance of the Marathon Racer, which you might expect to handily beat the plain Marathon. Not so, apparently.

No doubt these tests will become more and more useful as other tyres are added.

Thanks for that link, this is a very interesting website and backs up what I suspected with regards to the rolling resistance between the Marathons on my commuter and the Conti Contact II's on my touring bike.


Anyway now added to my book marks. 8)
Rich

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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby Brucey » 21 Nov 2015, 2:45pm

kylecycler wrote:
Planet X has the Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tyre (120 TPI casing and Double Shielding puncture protection) in 26-inch just now for £14.99 - is that as good as the Randonneur Hyper?


in a nutshell vs the Hyper IIRC; same carcass, different tread, probably the same puncture protection. The different tread means higher Crr than the hyper, until the tread wears down. If this is correct then a Hyper might be regarded as a 'pre-worn Pro' or something.... :wink:

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reohn2
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby reohn2 » 21 Nov 2015, 2:58pm

kylecycler wrote:
Planet X has the Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tyre (120 TPI casing and Double Shielding puncture protection) in 26-inch just now for £14.99 - is that as good as the Randonneur Hyper?


As Brucey says they share the same carcass with a high 120tpi count so are nice and supple,and the same puncture protection 'belt'.
There's a difference in tread pattern which IMO doesn't make much difference,but the main difference is tread thickness Hyper=3mm+ centre of tread 2mm+ on the shoulder,compared to the Rando Pro's 4.5mm and 3.5mm this adds weight and the ride comfort is slightly affected,the plus is longer life and a slight increase(if any)in puncture protection.
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby CREPELLO » 22 Nov 2015, 11:27am

reohn2 wrote:
kylecycler wrote:
Planet X has the Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tyre (120 TPI casing and Double Shielding puncture protection) in 26-inch just now for £14.99 - is that as good as the Randonneur Hyper?


As Brucey says they share the same carcass with a high 120tpi count so are nice and supple,and the same puncture protection 'belt'.

There's a difference in tread pattern which IMO doesn't make much difference,but the main difference is tread thickness Hyper=3mm+ centre of tread 2mm+ on the shoulder,compared to the Rando Pro's 4.5mm and 3.5mm this adds weight and the ride comfort is slightly affected,the plus is longer life and a slight increase(if any)in puncture protection.

Just want to point out that those two tyres don't have the same puncture protection. The Randonneur Pro carries a 'double shield' protection belt and the Hyper has a 'speed shield' belt. What they are made of, the Vittoria site doesn't say, although plenty of places seem to suggest that the Rand-pro belt is kevlar based (not the beading).
http://www.vittoria.com/tire/randonneur-pro/
http://www.vittoria.com/tire/voyager-hyper/

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kylecycler
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby kylecycler » 22 Nov 2015, 1:02pm

Thanks, folks. I figure the best plan might be to buy the 26-inch Kevlar Marathons from Spa for £11 each and use them until after the hawthorn season - where I live just about every road is bordered by hawthorn hedges, and they haven't even got down to cutting most of them yet.

There's a new cycle path from the town to the village, up the side of the major road, but although it's well appreciated, it's bordered by an as-yet uncut hawthorn hedge with no apparent contingency plans for sweeping up the cuttings! The workers cut the hedge, but only on the path side; they swept the cuttings, but so far the farmer has cut the top and field side of the hedge for 100 metres or so and the path was like a carpet of thorns! :evil:

I've never had decent puncture-proof tyres, just Kenda tyres supplied with the bikes and Conti Double Fighters (rubbish tyres, IME - they might roll well enough but with knobbles on the shoulders they don't corner and don't even grip well on loose surfaces - the worst of both worlds), and Conti TourRides, which are ok but are prone to punctures - three in the past fortnight, and the farmers haven't even got down to business yet. I've got about 7 patches on the front tube and about 3 on the back (I've lost count), and another one to do this afternoon. :roll: My trouble is, I've got more patience than money! :lol:

Then I'll try the Randonneur Pros once the hedges are all cut (probably the spring, at the rate they're going this year), and that's the 26-inch Subway sorted. As for the 650B, I'll follow Samuel's recommendation and try the Greenguards - so far, Schwalbe cater for 584/650B better than any other manufacturer except perhaps Compass, and I only go there in my dreams. Grand Bois Hetres = maybe someday but probably never. :(

I'll let you know how I get on.

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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby drossall » 22 Nov 2015, 3:08pm

That's an excellent review for Marathons, which I've used for years. However, it seems at odds with the apparent conventional wisdom on cycling forums that the Marathon is a heavy, slow tyre that you'd choose if you valued puncture resistance over ride quality.

I find them to be fine, but then I can't relate to all the bike reviews in which frames give "plush" rides and so on. Different bikes do handle differently, but I'm blowed if I know how they detect the fine differences that cycling magazines report, between tyres or bikes.

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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby Brucey » 22 Nov 2015, 4:41pm

in the fietsersbond tests they measured the ride quality using an accelerometer whilst riding over cobbles. The M+ tyres rode well for a tyre of that sort but were, by comparison with nice tyres clearly a lot less comfortable at the same pressure; and draggier, too, of course.

For a tyre of that sort they ride pretty well; but in absolute terms they are heavy, uncomfortable, and slow, by comparison with some other tyres. Thus when you choose M+ you are prioritising puncture protection above all those other tyre qualities.

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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby reohn2 » 22 Nov 2015, 5:35pm

CREPELLO wrote:Just want to point out that those two tyres don't have the same puncture protection. The Randonneur Pro carries a 'double shield' protection belt and the Hyper has a 'speed shield' belt. What they are made of, the Vittoria site doesn't say, although plenty of places seem to suggest that the Rand-pro belt is kevlar based (not the beading).
http://www.vittoria.com/tire/randonneur-pro/
http://www.vittoria.com/tire/voyager-hyper/


Yep you're right,my mistake :oops:
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mjr
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby mjr » 22 Nov 2015, 6:08pm

drossall wrote:That's an excellent review for Marathons, which I've used for years. However, it seems at odds with the apparent conventional wisdom on cycling forums that the Marathon is a heavy, slow tyre that you'd choose if you valued puncture resistance over ride quality.

I think Internet Forum People often confuse Marathon (fine for a resistant tyre, even if I usually prefer Delta Cruisers) with Marathon Plus (very resistant but much stiffer) and so this idea keeps rumbling along.
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Re: New touring tyre tests – good early showing by Schwalbe

Postby mercalia » 22 Nov 2015, 8:08pm

The HS368 Marathons in 26" and 1.75" width at no more than 75 psi ( the max ) are not uncomfortable at all. I use them but I do weigh about 16+ stone which or may not affect the comfort? A lighter person may need a less thick (sidewall) carcass? No one is considering weight and carcass thickness here re comfort? I cant imagine how any tyre could be more comfortable , in my case, you do need to be able to feel the road a bit? I am not convinced about the Kevlar puncture resistance - maybe fine in a knife attack but thorns are needles that would get thru the the kevlar threads? I personally would go for the Greenguard type if its thorns. I used to use tyre liners which is much like the Green guard idea and they stopped more punctures than any kevlar ever did. I dont use tyre liners now as I found they can shift around inside and wear the inner surface of the tyre.