Repairing Spa Nidd saddle

[GideonReade]

I don't know if the lack of give would increase or decrease the stress on the metal. If the leather is like a rigid beam, then it doesn't need tension to support me?

I guess there could be a fair bit of stress if the saddle gets wet (=loose), then is tightened, then dries and shrinks. I broke a tent that way once. But I'm aware of the problem, and avoid tightening it when wet. Well, I think so. Couldn't swear to it I guess.

A quick online search reveals an apparent tendency for the Cardiffs to fail at welds at the rear. Shame, as we're approaching a shop I know has some going cheap (cos they're white).

[pete75]

I wonder if the problem is due to the stiffness of the leather? I was shocked when I saw new ones at York. no give at all so max strain on the metal parts?

My son has had a Nidd on his bike for about five years now. Found that removing the laces helped reduce the stiffness for the break in period then replaced when the saddle became softer and contoured.

[Vantage]

The lack of stretchiness might have contributed to the Nidds faults but the noseplate was a p***poor design.
The noseplates on new Nidds have been redesigned.
There was a very sharp right angle cut out on the older models but the cut out is now curved so shouldn't be as likely to strain and crack.
My third replacement is still sitting in it's box where it'll remain unless my B17 dies.

[GideonReade]

Vantage - what do you mean by "new Nidds"? Someone above reported one for five years, didn't they, and people reviewed them in 2012. I bought mine in about May 2015, from Spa themselves. Shouldn't that have late enough for the fixing of what seems a common fault?

[Vantage]

I suppose it depends on what constitutes a "common" fault.
The only reports I personally have seen of the nose piece issue have been on this forum by three people, including myself. That's against what might number in the hundreds or thousands of Nidds that haven't broken.
New Nidd as in those with the redesigned nose piece.

[GideonReade]

Update, after about a week of riding...

1. The welded nosepiece is hanging in there, although I think I've set the saddle a little more nose up, so I'm sitting further back (and it's less comfy).

2. Very reasonable response from John P at Spa, says it shouldn't break, and he'll honour the warranty when we get back to the UK. Which he knows is many months yet.

So I guess I'll stick with it, hope the repair holds or can be redone as necessary. I bet Australian welders charge more than Javanese. If the repair does hold, do I even want an un-broken-in replacement?

[Tiberius]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but I thought that I would just throw this in.

Just his morning I have sent TWO B17s back to Brooks for replacment nose pieces and tensioning pins. Both noses cracked and both tensioning pins snapped (both snapped right on the tensioning nut) The noses have cracked in a very similar way to the one on the Nidd seen earlier in this thread.

I considered repairing them myself but decided to let Brooks do it and hopefully they can give me some feedback on why they have both let go in exactly the same way. One is approximately three years old (Road bike.. 7,000 miles) and one is around two years old (Trekking bike..4,000 miles) Me, 14.5 stones.

Brooks say this re tension pin failures...

By far the most common cause of breakages of the Rail, Backplate and Tension Pin is insufficient leather tension. Brooks recommend a routine six-monthly check of the tension, and adjustment where required.

My theory (which could well be utter rubbish) Both my saddles had a degree of 'sag' in them which I reckon allowed too much movement up front, eventually splitting the nose and snapping the tension bolt. I think that I should have paid more attention to leather tension but the saddles were so comfortable that, appart from the odd bit of Proofide, I left everything well alone. Some people NEVER touch the tension nut. All that I know is that I hardly touched mine and both saddles failed in exactly the same way.

It has to be something that I'm doing wrong.

I'm now back TEMPORARILY on a couple of plastic saddles......UTTER TORTURE !!!!!!......

[GideonReade]

Hmm, I've certainly seen some fairly saggy B17 examples. My Nidd never has been that; though it's softened a little, it's still pretty firm.

When the nosepiece broke, I noticed (felt) the bolt touch my leg... Don't think it sagged even then, loose at one end.

I can't get a Nidd out here, but I can get some Cardiff (other forums report they break at the back), or any number of Brooks in all shapes and colours... And monster prices, even more in Oz. Very fashionable, or at least strongly marketed in SE Asia. I reckon Spa could post me a Titanium Nidd and it'd still be less than buying a basic B17 in Cairns. And now I hear they break too. As earlier remarked, I think I'll stick with the welded Nidd.

[Brucey]

re breakages; for sure there are some parts that are badly made and are vulnerable to breakage. But there is more to it than that;

1) not everyone bounces in the saddle in the same way, hence the cyclic loading isn't the same for everyone.

2) Adjusting the tension regularly may help to protect the nosebolts from breakage, but not for the most obvious reason; every time you move the nosebolt, you move the point of highest stress on the bolt, so that the fatigue damage isn't concentrated in one spot. Hence the bolt lasts longer.

I don't think the bending stress on the bolt itself and the nosepiece is necessarily very much altered by small changes in saddle tension per se.

cheers

[pete75]

Hmm, I've certainly seen some fairly saggy B17 examples. My Nidd never has been that; though it's softened a little, it's still pretty firm.

When the nosepiece broke, I noticed (felt) the bolt touch my leg... Don't think it sagged even then, loose at one end.

I can't get a Nidd out here, but I can get some Cardiff (other forums report they break at the back), or any number of Brooks in all shapes and colours... And monster prices, even more in Oz. Very fashionable, or at least strongly marketed in SE Asia. I reckon Spa could post me a Titanium Nidd and it'd still be less than buying a basic B17 in Cairns. And now I hear they break too. As earlier remarked, I think I'll stick with the welded Nidd.

Cardiff and Spa leather saddles are effectively the same as are Velo Orange. All made by Gyes in Taiwan . The Nidd is Gyes GS17 http://www.gyes.com.tw/2-1rail.html

[GideonReade]

Hi, about them being the same. I'd seen the Cardiff and Velo Orange described as the same, and wondered about Spa's. But when I looked at the respective websites, the Nidd dimensions seemed different. At which point I concluded it was a different model, from, indeed, the same manufacturer. Maybe I've misremembered, or got models confused.

[gaz]

The Nidd on my commuter failed today, approx 3250miles over 2 years. Seems to be the same nose piece issue as already posted here.

DSCN1749a.jpg

DSCN1751a.jpg

Edit: Spa have indicated that the serial number shows it to be from a faulty batch. They've asked me to return it for replacement .

[maxmarengo]

I am on my second Titanium Nidd. On the first the hook shaped piece behind the tension locking bolt shattered at the bend after about 500 miles - just at the point when I was thinking all the pain was worth it.

The problem I have with my current and previous Nidds is that I can not get the locking bolt to lock using the tool provided - it simply will not fit in to the space at the nose end. Any suggestions on a good tool to use?

[Brucey]

I am on my second Titanium Nidd. On the first the hook shaped piece behind the tension locking bolt shattered at the bend after about 500 miles - just at the point when I was thinking all the pain was worth it.

the 'hook-shaped piece' is usually known as the 'shackle'. I think you can fit a steel one instead of the Ti one if you want. This piece occasionally fails on Brooks saddles with Ti rails, too. I don't think that the design is one in which the parts are easily replaced by Ti replicas, not in a 100% satisfactory fashion, anyway.

The problem I have with my current and previous Nidds is that I can not get the locking bolt to lock using the tool provided - it simply will not fit in to the space at the nose end. Any suggestions on a good tool to use?

the nut does not 'lock' the adjustment, since it is the only threaded thing that the nosebolt passes through. On most Brooks saddles (all of the much older models) the nosebolt is captive (it has a pip on it) and you turn the nut to adjust. IIRC the Nidd is different; the nut is held in one place using the spanner and the bolt (which is not captive) is turned using the AK fitting. There is no locking action, the adjustment is held by friction.

cheers

[maxmarengo]

Thanks for replying Brucey.

Firstly I was wrong about the break. I have looked back at my pictures of the broken saddle and it was the nose like everybody else's.

I can also see that the "shackle" has no thread. I thought it was a locking nut because that is what the instructions implied - poor translation?

The problem I have is that friction isn't working - the bolt loosens after a few miles. I need to find a way to increase the friction. I could tighten the saddle a lot, but that will make it less comfortable and when it breaks in again I will have to tighten up again. Any other suggestions are welcome (some kind of friction washer or Torque seal?).