Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

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RobC
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Joined: 5 Feb 2008, 3:27pm

Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby RobC » 14 Jan 2016, 2:16pm

I'm building up a cheap beater using various old bits that are lying around. I have an old 3 speed AW 27" wheel and a 1980s frame with 126mm dropouts.

I'd read somewhere that if you rebuild the hub with a 163mm axle then it will fit a 126mm frame. I found one on the SJS website and asked the question, but the response to my question (on the webpage) implies that you can't do that: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sturmey-arch ... prod19141/

Who's right?

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby Brucey » 14 Jan 2016, 3:04pm

I think when they say


Reply from SJS Cycles - 14th January 2016

Hi, Providing you AW hub is post the NIG change then you'll require a 175mm axle to work with 126mm drop-outs. If it is pre-NIG then you won't be able to do It i'm afraid as Sturmey Archer never produced that axle combination. Thanks.


their answer is entirely predicated on the assumption that you will need a 175mm axle (only available for NIG spec AW) and that a 163mm one won't do. I think;

a) you should be able to decide that for yourself, and
b) provided you are careful about which washers, NTWs etc that you use, you ought to be able to make it work OK with a 163mm axle, esp in any frame with thin pressed steel dropouts. After all, you do have about 18mm each end, which ought to be plenty for a thin dropout, a washer and a nut.

In theory you will also need a longer control toggle but in reality a shorter one will work OK if you are careful.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RobC
Posts: 87
Joined: 5 Feb 2008, 3:27pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby RobC » 14 Jan 2016, 3:43pm

Thanks Brucey, that's very helpful.

jk49
Posts: 112
Joined: 6 Apr 2013, 7:51pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby jk49 » 14 Jan 2016, 7:02pm

I have just finished doing the same to my 1990's Dawes Audax (126mm spacing). I used the NTW's for vertical dropouts on the inside of the dropouts and one 3mm spacer on the NDS. I was left with 12mm ish of axle length outside the dropout on each side, so I'm hoping that will be enough for the nuts/axle threads. Haven't ridden it far yet due to work!
Ps I used the 163mm axle from SJS on a pre nig aw3.

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby hubgearfreak » 16 Jan 2016, 2:03pm

assuming it's steel, cold setting the frame is easy enough. read sheldon brown. it's also the method that involves buying nothing

robc02
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Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 7:12pm
Location: Stafford

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby robc02 » 16 Jan 2016, 4:36pm

hubgearfreak wrote:assuming it's steel, cold setting the frame is easy enough. read sheldon brown. it's also the method that involves buying nothing


+1. Here's the article:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Don't forget to check and, if necessary, adjust the forkends. The improvised measurement tool I use is and old front hub:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/forkend-alignment.html

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby Brucey » 16 Jan 2016, 4:43pm

I'd stick with 126mm simply because that way you have more choices in the long run. If you go to 120mm then you have two options; singlespeed or old 3s IGH. There are many more choices at 126mm.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby hubgearfreak » 21 Jan 2016, 8:39pm

brucey - if the time comes where the OP wants to go to a 126mm hub, surely they can re-cold set it?

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby Brucey » 21 Jan 2016, 9:01pm

hubgearfreak wrote:brucey - if the time comes where the OP wants to go to a 126mm hub, surely they can re-cold set it?


maybe.... it all depends how much ductility the steel in the frame has. I wouldn't recommend that you repeatedly cold set a frame.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RobC
Posts: 87
Joined: 5 Feb 2008, 3:27pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby RobC » 22 Jan 2016, 1:35pm

Interesting discussion!

It's a fairly robust 531 tourer frame (Carlton I think, though the decals have long since worn away).

I'll try the longer axle and spacers and let you know how I get on.

Geoff.D
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Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby Geoff.D » 22 Jan 2016, 2:51pm

jk49 wrote:I have just finished doing the same to my 1990's Dawes Audax (126mm spacing). I used the NTW's for vertical dropouts on the inside of the dropouts and one 3mm spacer on the NDS. I was left with 12mm ish of axle length outside the dropout on each side, so I'm hoping that will be enough for the nuts/axle threads. Haven't ridden it far yet due to work!
Ps I used the 163mm axle from SJS on a pre nig aw3.


It's my understanding that the majority of the stress taken by a tightened nut is n the first three threads. I've used SA nuts on a solid axle with the last thread not engaged and had no problem with slippage or stripping. Not ideal from an aesthetic point of view, but a viable hack.

jk49
Posts: 112
Joined: 6 Apr 2013, 7:51pm

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby jk49 » 22 Jan 2016, 6:43pm

Thanks for the reassurance. I've been out and about on it a few times now, with no thread/nut related misadventures so far, so hopefully its all good.

niggle
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Location: Cornwall, near England

Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby niggle » 23 Jan 2016, 11:48am

This is great- saving me starting my own thread! I have picked up a cheap used On One Inbred frame with 'track end' drop outs and was considering building a utility bike with some gentle trail bimbling ability based around a hub gear and non rim brakes.

I have narrowed it down to looking for a 3 speed hub and drum brakes but the only SA hub with suitable axle length for the Inbred 135mm rear spacing appears to be the XL-RD3 (177mm axle) which I think is unescessarily powerful, heavy and expensive. I would be quite happy with a £60 SAB3 but that has a 163mm axle with 118mm OLD.

As the frame was cheap I would not be overly concerned with 'no going back' aspect of reducing the spacing, so I think I will give it a go. My main concern is about keeping the dropouts parallel- will attempt to readjust them after changing the spacing by using a couple of pieces of threaded bar etc.

Hopefully I will report back later in Feb with pictures of a bright green monstrosity with 2" knobblies, full mudguards, three speed hub and various bits from the back of the shed :roll:

Brucey
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Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby Brucey » 23 Jan 2016, 12:11pm

if you use a later (non NIG) SA 3s hub then there are longer axles available for those (175 or 177 mm or something), and that might let you keep the frame as it is.

IIRC a non-NIG internal will usually fit into an older AW hubshell on a non-brake hub but if you fit a long axle to a 70mm brake hub I think you need the internal and the hubshell to match and be the later type. Do check this but I think you can fit the longer axle to a SAB3 hub for example.

BTW it isn't that there is 'no going back' but every time you cold set a frame you do increase the risk that is going to break. It is probably best if it is viewed as a one-time deal.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

robc02
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Re: Old AW hub on 126mm dropouts

Postby robc02 » 23 Jan 2016, 12:42pm

My main concern is about keeping the dropouts parallel- will attempt to readjust them after changing the spacing by using a couple of pieces of threaded bar etc.


I usually use an old front hub for this. For wider spacings the axle comes just short of the opposite dropout so it's quite a good method. I've also used it successfully for doing narrower spacings (under 120mm), but the axle falls inside the opposite dropout slot so the alignment needs to be fairly close to begin with. Even in this case you can readily see which way the dropout needs bending.

If you set the spacing to 122 - 123mm you might be able to spring the ends to either a 120 or 126 if the need arises.