Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

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Brucey
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Brucey » 4 Feb 2016, 11:26pm

RickH wrote:
Brucey wrote:aye, but do they do a road triple in Di2?

cheers

If there isn't a connector problem I see no reason you couldn't use the XTR gears with drop bar Di2 levers. IIRC the gear range of XTR would give you something like 16 - 103" gears (11-40 &, I think, 22/32/42)

Rick


I think that you may be being unduly optimistic; I don't think there is a suitable front mech (the XTR one is for the wrong size chainrings and the wrong chainline, amongst other things) and I also think that the front mech trim requirements are completely different between an MTB setup and a 'road' setup.

In addition the compatibility of a suitable rear mech and shifter are unknown; I don't think the standard Di2 road rear mechs will have enough total capacity to run a road triple, so you would probably have to try and use the XTR rear mech as well.

cheers
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Redvee
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Re: Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Redvee » 5 Feb 2016, 12:52am

RideToWorky wrote:The uphill run:
Bristol Concorde Way:
St Werburghs all the way past the MOD
St Werburghs, at the start, up past the allotments. this is the steepest section... at the very start :(
4 Ascent sections, I think
6.5 miles approx


I used to do that route and still do from time to time on a single speed bike. I do have good legs hence the relative ease I find in riding this route on a single speed bike.

Vorpal
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Re: Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Vorpal » 5 Feb 2016, 8:13am

RideToWorky wrote:The uphill run:
Bristol Concorde Way:
St Werburghs all the way past the MOD
St Werburghs, at the start, up past the allotments. this is the steepest section... at the very start :(
4 Ascent sections, I think
6.5 miles approx
Come friday night, I'm knackered!
45 Years old, No injuries, not much stamina though.
8st 12, skinny runt with no reserves or stamina... working on the fitness
Not expecting miracles in imnprovement! Read somewhere over the weekend - over 40yers of age - takes longer to recover from exercise etc. (Cycling weekly I think)

How often are you doing this? How long have you been doing it? These questions are more pertinent than your age and weight.

It can take a while to get used to doing something like that. Do you have any alternatives? Can you cycle 2 times per week for a few weeks, then 3 times per week, and build up gradually?

Otherwise, I think if you just stick with it, eat well, and get plenty of sleep, your body will probably adjust to it. If you want a new bike (shiny!), that's one thing, but if you are expecting it to cure your Friday night knackerdness, you may be in for disappointment.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

RideToWorky
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Re: Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby RideToWorky » 5 Feb 2016, 9:28am

Vorpal wrote:
RideToWorky wrote:The uphill run:
Bristol Concorde Way:
St Werburghs all the way past the MOD
St Werburghs, at the start, up past the allotments. this is the steepest section... at the very start :(
4 Ascent sections, I think
6.5 miles approx
Come friday night, I'm knackered!
45 Years old, No injuries, not much stamina though.
8st 12, skinny runt with no reserves or stamina... working on the fitness
Not expecting miracles in imnprovement! Read somewhere over the weekend - over 40yers of age - takes longer to recover from exercise etc. (Cycling weekly I think)



How often are you doing this? How long have you been doing it? These questions are more pertinent than your age and weight.

It can take a while to get used to doing something like that. Do you have any alternatives? Can you cycle 2 times per week for a few weeks, then 3 times per week, and build up gradually?

Otherwise, I think if you just stick with it, eat well, and get plenty of sleep, your body will probably adjust to it. If you want a new bike (shiny!), that's one thing, but if you are expecting it to cure your Friday night knackerdness, you may be in for disappointment.



Morning Vorpal :D

Q:How often are you doing this?
A: 5 days a week, hence come friday I'm knackered


Q:How long have you been doing it?
A:
Built up to it
March 2015 started cycling
Late summer 2015 built up enough, to cycle to work
Started 1, 2, then 3 days a week,
November - 5 days a week
Dec15, Jan16 - stopped, various reasons outside of cycling
Feb 2016 - starting up again


Q:If you want a new bike (shiny!), that's one thing, but if you are expecting it to cure your Friday night knackerdness, you may be in for disappointment
A:
Not expecting miracles.
Looking longer term for a light, energy economical, hill climber bike with panniers, so easier to keep the ageing legs spinning!
ie Less effort, so more chance cycle more often to work etc.


Regards
Martin
Last edited by RideToWorky on 5 Feb 2016, 9:35am, edited 1 time in total.

Merry_Wanderer
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Merry_Wanderer » 5 Feb 2016, 9:31am

Martin - I wasn't thinking custom build, more along the lines of making cheap changes to your existing bikes. You could change the tyres on your hybrid for a slick puncture resistant variety to cut your rolling resistance (if it hasn't already got such tyres) and see if there's any difference. In reality if you are new to cycling that distance it will feel challenging especially when you have done it for a week and worked in between. I would second what Vorpal said above, eat well, get good rest and you will get fitter and it will feel easier over time. My 14 mile round trip if a commute used to feel very hard, especially on Friday evening but after 9 months I spend more time thinking of ways to increase my commuting distance.

Samuel D
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Samuel D » 5 Feb 2016, 10:05am

Unless I’ve missed it, we still have no idea what gears Martin has on his two bicycles. So Martin, I suggest you count the teeth on the smallest chainring and largest rear sprocket on each of your bicycles, and then report back.

Brucey
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Brucey » 5 Feb 2016, 10:33am

IIRC he mentions elsewhere that he presently has a 50, 35 chainset and a 28T sprocket. A valid question is whether to change the chainset, the cassette + rear mech, or all of them in order to get low enough gearing.

cheers
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SpannerGeek
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby SpannerGeek » 5 Feb 2016, 10:52am

I've been riding a 1x11 set up all winter and I must say it's all the gears I'll ever use and very low maintenance.

Brucey
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Brucey » 5 Feb 2016, 11:02am

SpannerGeek wrote:I've been riding a 1x11 set up all winter and I must say it's all the gears I'll ever use and very low maintenance.


.... so far.....? :wink:

A valid question is perhaps just how much 'maintenance' a front mech/lever and additional chainring might have required in the meantime.

I'd argue that the answer to that would be 'none at all' -or close to it. I find that decent front mechs - with just an occasional squirt of lube- often outlast the rest of the bike they are attached to, and likewise many forms of shifter.

If this is the case then the '1x = low maintenance' concept is just an illusion; an idea that is not in fact borne out in reality, not unless you (perversely) only choose to compare it with the most complicated and unreliable alternatives...

cheers
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Merry_Wanderer
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Merry_Wanderer » 5 Feb 2016, 11:23am

It may be ignorant of me to ask, in which case please feel free to correct me, would a 1 x 11 not wear out the chain more quickly than a 3 x 9 because of the angle of the chain in the lowest and highest gears

SpannerGeek
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby SpannerGeek » 5 Feb 2016, 11:33am

Not really, because the chain line is optimised for one set up, so there no extremes of big ring/big cog and vice versa. The low maintenance aspect is twin: no front mech/lever/chainring adjustment or wear and drastically improved chain wear.

I used to go through a Shimano chain every 3000 miles. I'm on 9300 miles with this chain and still going strong.

Using a bar end shifter I was able to save £285 over a 3x11 set up which tbh I wouldn't consider again.

A 1x8 set up could probably be put together for £120... Oh, and it also shaved 700gr (2lbs) off the weight of the bike (with 3x10)
too ;)

Vorpal
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Re: Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Vorpal » 5 Feb 2016, 12:45pm

RideToWorky wrote:Q: How often are you doing this?
A: 5 days a week, hence come friday I'm knackered

Q:How long have you been doing it?
A:
Built up to it
March 2015 started cycling
Late summer 2015 built up enough, to cycle to work
Started 1, 2, then 3 days a week,
November - 5 days a week
Dec15, Jan16 - stopped, various reasons outside of cycling
Feb 2016 - starting up again

Regards
Martin

How did you feel doing in it in November? I think that you will get used to it. When I moved to Norway from Essex, I started a daily commute that included 1000 feet of climbing. Even though I was an experienced cyclist with roughly 5000 miles in the previous 12 months cycling, I found that hill every day hard going, and I was tired by the end of the week, every week for a couple of months, at least. Two years ago I injured my ribs & was off the bike for a couple of months, and when I started again, that hill was every bit as hard as the first time I did it. It wasn't *quite* starting over, if only because I knew I could do it, but I began in 2014 with less fitness than in 2012, and I didn't even try to do it every day at first.

That doesn't mean that lower gearing isn't appropriate, but I will caution you that if it helps with the tiredness, it will likely be because you are doing it more slowly.

p.s. have you calculated any of the gear arrangements to compare to your current bikes? Do you know what your curent bikes are?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Brucey
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Brucey » 5 Feb 2016, 1:45pm

Merry_Wanderer wrote:It may be ignorant of me to ask, in which case please feel free to correct me, would a 1 x 11 not wear out the chain more quickly than a 3 x 9 because of the angle of the chain in the lowest and highest gears


yes of course it will, if you use those gears....

SpannerGeek wrote:Not really, because the chain line is optimised for one set up, so there no extremes of big ring/big cog and vice versa.


well with a 3x setup you don't need to use those gears because there are alternatives that give the same ratios. If you are saying that you don't use those gears with your 1x setup then you are really saying that you don't need that gear range after all, so maybe you would be as well off with a 1x7 setup instead of a 1x11...? If you had used a 3x setup you wouldn't have shifted off the middle ring....?

The low maintenance aspect is twin: no front mech/lever/chainring adjustment or wear and drastically improved chain wear. I used to go through a Shimano chain every 3000 miles. I'm on 9300 miles with this chain and still going strong.


If the chain is the same type and otherwise maintained similarly, this might just be attributable to (with a 2x or 3x setup) occasionally shifting onto chainrings that are covered in a thick layer of crud, or perhaps the one (smaller) chainring is better shielded by the mudflap or something. Past that I'd suggest that 'something else' is going on (eg different chain/chainring /spockets or different use/maintenance regime) because even scrupulously maintained exposed chains rarely last more than 7000 miles before they are done, which would be somewhat odds with your 'low maintenance' claim. Have you checked how worn your chain is recently? What chain etc are you using?

Using a bar end shifter I was able to save £285 over a 3x11 set up which tbh I wouldn't consider again. A 1x8 set up could probably be put together for £120... Oh, and it also shaved 700gr (2lbs) off the weight of the bike (with 3x10)


well a LH shifter costs about £15 and a mech isn't much more so you are clearly not comparing like with like here, cost wise. Also 700g is certainly not '2lbs' or anywhere near it; 700g is actually a little over 1-1/2lbs, plus I don't think that is a realistic estimate anyway;

Try;
Big Ring = 150g
Little ring plus bolts = 120g
Front mech = 90g
DT lever + cable = 60g
extra chain = 10g
Total = 430g

i.e. less than 1lb difference vs a triple, if you are using like-for-like components elsewhere.

in point of fact it can be even less than that, because to get the same gear range with a double or a triple you can use a smaller, lighter cassette. [When comparing a double with a triple, a carefully chosen triple can often be lighter than a double because of this...]

If it floats your boat, fine; but I for one would be very reluctant to attribute such a setup with longevity, simplicity, or light weight as you describe, not without considerable further scrutiny/justification.

cheers
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RickH
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby RickH » 5 Feb 2016, 1:57pm

Brucey wrote:I think that you may be being unduly optimistic; I don't think there is a suitable front mech (the XTR one is for the wrong size chainrings and the wrong chainline, amongst other things) and I also think that the front mech trim requirements are completely different between an MTB setup and a 'road' setup.

In addition the compatibility of a suitable rear mech and shifter are unknown; I don't think the standard Di2 road rear mechs will have enough total capacity to run a road triple, so you would probably have to try and use the XTR rear mech as well.

cheers

I was talking (or possibly mumbling incoherently :wink: ) about the possibility of using a full XTR Di2 3x11 set (if someone wanted to donate one to me! :D ) apart from the shifters & using road ones for that purpose.

Rick.

Brucey
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Re: Road bike Commuting up hills - 16, 22 or 24 Gears?

Postby Brucey » 5 Feb 2016, 2:09pm

RickH wrote: I was talking (or possibly mumbling incoherently :wink: ) about the possibility of using a full XTR Di2 3x11 set (if someone wanted to donate one to me! :D ) apart from the shifters & using road ones for that purpose...


OK I see what you mean; it wouldn't suit me on the road at all (wrong gear ratios, horrible Q factor) but I guess it could work for some folk.

If I had these bits in my spares stash you'd be welcome to them, but you know what, I'm fresh out... :lol:

cheers
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