Surly tandem(perhaps)

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reohn2
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Surly tandem(perhaps)

Postby reohn2 » 8 Feb 2016, 12:38pm

Following a train of thought from the cargo bike thread caused me to wonder why Surly haven't added a tandem to their range.
With their niche outlook I'd have thought a nice 4130 CroMo based touring type tandem would've been a logical step,as some of their range aren't what you might call volume sellers.
Anyone any thoughts on it?
Last edited by reohn2 on 8 Feb 2016, 4:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigdummysteve
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Re: Surly

Postby Bigdummysteve » 8 Feb 2016, 1:04pm

It could be because they can't find a 'hip' angle to approach it from, lots of their range offer something different. The Bigdummy, Krampus,ECR,Pugsley ect. A surly tandem would be interesting though perhaps an off-road fat bike tandem?

mig
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Re: Surly

Postby mig » 8 Feb 2016, 1:10pm

i reckon tooling up to make tandem frames is expensive. maybe the capital required would take a long time to re-coup on a low volume seller.

Brucey
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Re: Surly

Postby Brucey » 8 Feb 2016, 1:12pm

Surly tandem...? Hmm, you may well have a good point, but then again tandems (and especially touring tandems) are not like other bikes; they ship in different sized boxes, you need lots of frame sizes (about which folk are liable to be more fussy than, say, with cargo bikes) and they need a stack of 'special' -or at least different- parts that differ from most other bikes and are not commoditised in the same way.

They are also quite a lot more difficult to build by welding; keeping the front half lined up perfectly with the back half is surprisingly difficult, there are limited opportunities for cold-setting, and if there is the slightest error it is blindingly obvious. [I can testify to this from my recumbent build, which had similar issues; the welds that joined the front boom on similarly took about x3 longer to get right than they would have done otherwise.]

Much as I like steel frames arguably it is easier to build a tandem ( one that isn't like riding a twisty noodle when it is loaded up) in Aluminium rather than steel, and only a few high mileage crews are likely to suffer fatigue breakages as a consequence.

Maybe there is a gap in the market; perhaps a tandem that comes equipped as a (variable sized, easily adjusted) kiddy carrier would make sense? Those machines with one or two kiddy seats and pedals at the front are surprisingly popular, even though they are really rather crudely made.

cheers
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honesty
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Re: Surly

Postby honesty » 8 Feb 2016, 1:34pm

There is already a Salsa 29er tandem http://salsacycles.com/bikes/powderkeg I would think as it's a stable mate they don't want to step on each others feet. Saying that why not do a LHT based tandem? Maybe there just isn't the market in the US

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Heltor Chasca
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Surly

Postby Heltor Chasca » 8 Feb 2016, 1:37pm

And Surly are the type of company that will either get stuck in or give the idea the ubiquitous "Foxtrot Oscar!". They are like that: I made the mistake once of making an enquiry about frame colour. To put it nicely, they sent me a "Foxtrot Oscar" reply!

They aren't the type of company to start taking bespoke requests for tandem sizes I promise you. What they have for sale is what you buy if you really want a Surly. And what you will undoubtably buy is an awesome bike or frame at a good price.

I've really bought into their brand. Normally I would balk at any other company using these unusual ethos, but there's something I really like about their no bulldust stance. They don't suffer fools put it that way.

And after all that I haven't helped answer the OP's question. Sorry reohn2...b

reohn2
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Re: Surly

Postby reohn2 » 8 Feb 2016, 1:54pm

honesty wrote:There is already a Salsa 29er tandem http://salsacycles.com/bikes/powderkeg I would think as it's a stable mate they don't want to step on each others feet. Saying that why not do a LHT based tandem? Maybe there just isn't the market in the US


The Powder Keg was another reason thought of Surly,and as you say an LHTT,why not?
It'd sell enough to make it worth while I'd have thought.

Brucey,Taiwan makes loadsa steel tandem framesets,Salsa,Thorn and do it well,I'm sure there are many others,IMO you could cover most team combinations with three or four sizes,plus a Medium/childback size.

As for the specialist parts,they ain't that special,40 hole hubs(Formula or Sh.. you know who) and rims(Sputniks),or 36's for a 26in wheel bike,chainset(S/light or Truvativ(S/T of course),11/4 h/set,though 11/8 does nicely on our C/dale,stoker stem aren't a problem,two discs and a standby/parking v parking brake,

Check the spec and price on this tandem,then factor in the extra cost of a steel frame and a couple more sizes:- http://khsbicycles.com/08_tan_alite_12.htm
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mercalia
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Re: Surly

Postby mercalia » 8 Feb 2016, 2:22pm

How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?

Bigdummysteve
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Re: Surly

Postby Bigdummysteve » 8 Feb 2016, 2:45pm

mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?


Not many, I did see a tridem? On its way past heading for John o groats, three grown blokes who seemed to having a good time. This was June last year on the A74 near Locherbie, I would love a tandem but Mrs BD can't grasp the idea of cycling for fun but I would love a child back if I had funds and the room.

reohn2
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Re: Surly

Postby reohn2 » 8 Feb 2016, 3:52pm

mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:


Where live usually on average one every other time out sometimes two per ride.

I'd hardly call some of their models volume sales,fat bikes(though becoming more popular),Big Dummy,and their 'adventure' tourers aren't volume stuff.
TBH I see more tandems than I do LHT's 'round our way.
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RickH
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Re: Surly

Postby RickH » 8 Feb 2016, 4:55pm

mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Riding a tandem is not for those who want to pass through life queitly and un-noticed!

Riding along people shout at you - usually in a freindly manner that "she's not pedalling" (or that "you've lost someone" if I'm on it solo) - & they strike up conversations at cafes & on railway station platforms, often telling you that "you don't see many of those around" and that their father/grandfather/uncle/etc used to ride one when they were little.

Brucey wrote:...you need lots of frame sizes (about which folk are liable to be more fussy than, say, with cargo bikes) and they need a stack of 'special' -or at least different- parts that differ from most other bikes and are not commoditised in the same way.

I think Circe have pretty much cracked it with their Helios (but I am biased as an owner). It will cover a vast range of sizes of people, particularly the stoker (very small frame & double telescopic seat post) - my grandson fitted from 4 years old (with just the addition of crank shorteners), yet a full grown adult fits as well.

The frame design is interesting, with the rear seat tube having a very slack angle & the BB several inches behind the junction of the seat tube with the bottom tube, so the stoker's space "grows" as the seat height rises. For transmission it uses 2 standard triple chainsets (but with only the inner ring & & bash guard on the front), the smallest being used for the link/timing chain. And it also transforms into a cargo bike in a matter of minutes!

Rick.

Merry_Wanderer
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Postby Merry_Wanderer » 8 Feb 2016, 5:31pm

Not quite on topic but Gary the owner of Banbury Cycles (Oxfordshire Surly dealers) has a Surly LHT made into a trike, but not made by Surly

Bigdummysteve
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Postby Bigdummysteve » 8 Feb 2016, 6:09pm

Merry_Wanderer wrote:Not quite on topic but Gary the owner of Banbury Cycles (Oxfordshire Surly dealers) has a Surly LHT made into a trike, but not made by Surly


Don't let that put you off though :wink: , great shop and Gary and Ian are top blokes.

mercalia
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Postby mercalia » 8 Feb 2016, 9:06pm

well are tandems a big thing in the USA or not? if not maybe thats why? the usa their main market?

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RickH
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Re: Surly

Postby RickH » 8 Feb 2016, 10:36pm

Bigdummysteve wrote:It could be because they can't find a 'hip' angle to approach it from, lots of their range offer something different. The Bigdummy, Krampus,ECR,Pugsley ect. A surly tandem would be interesting though perhaps an off-road fat bike tandem?

Did someone say fate bike tandems? :D

mercalia wrote:well are tandems a big thing in the USA or not? if not maybe thats why? the usa their main market?


There seem to be a number of US tandem makers around - a quite brief search threw up Calfee, Co-Motion & Santana. I met an American couple with a carbon fibre Calfee (I think it was) with S&S couplings when I was in Wharfedale for the TdeF Grand Depart in 2014.

Rick.