Tiagra shifter v 105

[McStumpy]

Hi

My friends 105 brakes seem to only need a light touch from the hoods to engage, whereas my tiagra 4600 needs a strong push (to the point I have to go to the drops to apply brakes fully). Is this just the difference between the two groupsets or does it sounds as if my brakes or levers need some adjustment?

Worth noting, I have one lever that operates both brakes via a cable doubler.

Thanks

[Mick F]

I'm interested in this as a question because I have recently gone over the dark side to Shimano. I too have Tiagra.

The brake operation is awful from the hoods but great from the drops. I reckon it is something to do with where the pivot is and the mechanical advantage .......... or lack of it.

Hopefully, the better quality on higher groups is better in this regard.

[Neilo]

I am assuming that your friends brake lever only brakes one wheel. Braking both wheels from one lever would need approximately double the force of braking a single wheel, that may be the difference.

[531colin]

Running 2 brakes from 1 lever means you have roughly double the cable friction to overcome before the brake blocks even move. Make sure your cables runs are as smooth as possible, with no sharp bends. Make sure the outer cable ends are cut straight and smooth, with no ragged bits, and ferrules are in good order, the inner wires should be stainless and smooth. I lubricate my cables with oil, but you will get many opinions on this.
2 brakes from 1 lever also means your hand force is halved between 2 brakes. The front brake does the lion's share of the braking. There must be people who have gone down this path before, and I'm not one of them, but I would be looking at some way of either making most of your one hand force go to the front brake, or possibly using your hand for the front brake and finding another way to operate the back brake.
"Tigerbiten" a member of this on-line community has only one hand and considerable mechanical talent.

[bainbridge]

I wonder if it's possible to get lighter springs for the calipers?

[McStumpy]

Thank you all, the logic re the dual brake pull is sound and sounds more of a factor perhaps than tiagra v 105.

[Psamathe]

I've no experience of the difference (on normal 1 lever for one brake) but have checked on this many times from many sources (mainly shops) as I have loads of issues with my Tiagra STIs for the rear gear change which seems to always be very inaccurate (to change sometimes one click, sometimes two, sometimes two and back one ...) so I got to the point where I wondered if the Tiagra were just not great and moving up to 105s might help.

And, despite being prepared to spend the money (i.e. more business for the shops), they generally said that 105s would be a bit better but not enough to make it worth the cost of changing and that Tiagra are not bad. So they all pretty well talked me out of the change (and talked themselves out of the business).

And the "talking themselves out of the business" convinced me that there was really not enough difference to justify the cost.

Ian

[Paulatic]

I have one bike running 16yo Tiagra 3x9 and one bike running 2yo 105 2x10. I can't compare the braking capacity has each bike has different type brakes. The 105 can stop quickly from any hand position.
Changing gear the Tiagra has always been an art and best if you make a slow deliberate move rather than a snatch. I'm familiar with the two clicks then back one for a clean gear. [emoji3]
The 105 gear change is faultless. It never misses [emoji1]

[cycleruk]

I don't know for certain but I understand that Shimano have changed the mechanics of their newer braking systems. (mechanical advantage).
I have fitted later "105" 10 speed STI's with older 105 brakes and I seem to have use more force.
Regarding the shifting problems - my 105 also started giving issues with the shift. Sometimes needing a help to change or 2 down 1 back style.
Cured this with a new inner cable and a new rear section of outer. (by the RD)

[McStumpy]

Thanks. Shifting seems fine, to be fair.

The calipers on my bike are shimano "no name" 57mm drop, I'm guessing given relatively cheap cost of bike (originally flat bar version of Btwin Triban 540 before I converted to drops) that these are entry level. I wonder if I would see an improvement with br650 calipers?

[keyboardmonkey]

...I wonder if I would see an improvement with br650 calipers?

| would be very surprised if you didn't.

[Mick F]

This morning, I was out on the test-ride and was on the side of the road ............. fettling, as you do!
A chap came cycling along and stopped to see if I was ok. We chatted about this and that, and discussed STIs.
He had 105, and my mine has Tiagra.

What a difference!
His 105's had the pivot for the brake levers in a sensible place and had good mechanical advantage ............. so very very VERY different to my Tiagra levers.

I want 105.
Are they all the same, or should I look for a particular model?

[Brucey]

I don't know for certain but I understand that Shimano have changed the mechanics of their newer braking systems. (mechanical advantage).
I have fitted later "105" 10 speed STI's with older 105 brakes and I seem to have use more force.

this is not an illusion, if indeed your 10s STIs are 5700 rather than 5600. The latest STIs (starting with Dura-Ace in 2008 and trickling down into other groups as time has gone on) have what is called 'New Super SLR' brake pull, (vs 'Super SLR' which has been in use since about 1993 and works with all previous iterations of DP brake).

If you use NSSLR levers with SSLR brakes, you will get a rather 'wooden' brake which needs about +20% more effort than you might otherwise choose.

BTW discussions of this sort are frequently mired in confusion because the parts under discussion are not correctly identified; there are many different versions of every shimano groupset, and often there are multiple versions even with the same number of gears etc.

For example 10s '105' parts exist in 5700 and 5600 forms and the brakes in each groupset are different. There are also two different 10s tiagra groupsets. You can't really have a sensible discussion about any of this stuff without identifying which model you have.

cheers

[Lance Dopestrong]

I got bikes with 2015 Tiagra and 105. Aside from the additional gear, there's little in it. The biggest difference in feel is that the Tiagra has a longer throw at the levers, but otherwise both are very slick. Little in in with the brakes either, though I don't run Shimano lads on either machine, and the rims are different too so that's harder to make a valid comparison. Both set ups are delightful to use.

[Vetus Ossa]

I have been using campag most of my life but a few years ago I bought a Trek with mostly ultegra bits including shifters and to be honest they work nicer than any campag shifters I have ever used or owned.