Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

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Gattonero
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Gattonero »

Mick F wrote:One of these.192.jpgThey are too short to unscrew the SA hub ball ring, but you can mount one horizontal in a bench vice ( with soft jaws ) sit the wheel in it and turn the wheel.

Works a treat. :D


It's a good idea as that spanner tends to skip sideways the narrow engagements, so using a vice you can exert downward force too (just like was done for some single-speed freewheels), and the spanner being long works better with the vice.
It may require two men if used in a 16" or 20" wheel, given the relatively short leverage of a small diameter wheel.

My way to do it, is to sit on the wheel and one hand (with thick working glove) holds that spanner in place while the other hand works down a 2.5ft flat pipe additional leverage to the spanner
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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Mick F
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Mick F »

Gattonero wrote:It's a good idea as that spanner tends to skip sideways the narrow engagements, so using a vice you can exert downward force too (just like was done for some single-speed freewheels), and the spanner being long works better with the vice.
It may require two men if used in a 16" or 20" wheel, given the relatively short leverage of a small diameter wheel.
Easy with just little old me with my 20" Moulton wheels, though it is a bit of a tug.
First time I did it. I scuffed my knuckles on the vice as it releases with a bang! :shock:
Next time, I used work gloves.

Bigger wheels you have, the more leverage of course, AND your hands are well clear of the vice.

I bought mine on offer .......... I wouldn't have paid the RRP for one .......... but it's so much better than using a punch and hammer to knock the ring undone.
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Brucey »

Mick F wrote: ....but it's so much better than using a punch and hammer to knock the ring undone.


is it? 'Better' in what way...? :shock: :shock:

It won't even fit most of the SA hubs that are out there, it is slower to use, and as you have found it is too short and it slips off rather easily.

I don't know of anyone that works on SA hubs regularly that uses one; they all use a punch.

I'd rather save my time and money for something else.... :wink:

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Mick F »

Better in many ways.
1. It works easily
2. It fits perfectly
3. It works quickly and reliably and instantly
4. It's far quicker and simpler than the hammer and punch idea
5. Hitting something with a punch and hammer, when there's the correct tool for the job available is poor working practice.

Downside ............. and there's only one that I can see ............. is that you have to pay for a tool.

BTW.
I didn't even try to use it as a spanner. It's totally unsuitable as there's nothing to hold it on, and it's nowhere near long enough.
Fitting it in a vice is common sense and works perfectly as if it was designed for it.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Gattonero
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Gattonero »

Everyone has it's way to do a job, the result may have different paths leading to the same finish point.

For example, when working on normal nuts&bolts some people swears by the use of a ratchet+socket, others for a suitable open-end spanner, others do use adjustable spanners.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
bertgrower
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by bertgrower »

Brucey wrote:
Mick F wrote: ....but it's so much better than using a punch and hammer to knock the ring undone.


is it? 'Better' in what way...? :shock: :shock:

It won't even fit most of the SA hubs that are out there, it is slower to use, and as you have found it is too short and it slips off rather easily.

I don't know of anyone that works on SA hubs regularly that uses one; they all use a punch.

I'd rather save my time and money for something else.... :wink:

cheers


I was told by a very experance cycle mechanic that this spanner was only suitable to tighten up the ball ring and that if you try to undo with it , it will damage the spanner.
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Gattonero
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Gattonero »

bertgrower wrote:...
I was told by a very experance cycle mechanic that this spanner was only suitable to tighten up the ball ring and that if you try to undo with it , it will damage the spanner.


To be fair, I'd rather damage a -relatively- cheap spanner than the hub.
Even tho, those spanners are stamped and not forged, so my take is that by using them in a way that will make them slip, they will get rounded-off in the two prongs.

I've used such spanners many times to remove the internals of S.A. hubs, it's all about stay in control and not make the spanner to slip.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Brucey
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Brucey »

re SA ball ring spanner;

Mick F wrote:Better in many ways.
1. It works easily
2. It fits perfectly
3. It works quickly and reliably and instantly
4. It's far quicker and simpler than the hammer and punch idea
5. Hitting something with a punch and hammer, when there's the correct tool for the job available is poor working practice.
.


1. It doesn't
2. Er, no it doesn't; the majority of SA hubs are out there are different and that spanner won't even fit.
3. It slips too easily
4. No, it isn't; see comment below
5. It is exactly what folk have been doing for over 100 years

bertgrower wrote: ...I was told by a very experance cycle mechanic that this spanner was only suitable to tighten up the ball ring and that if you try to undo with it , it will damage the spanner.


It seems like good advice to me.

Using a hammer and punch one can loosen an internal in seconds without even removing the wheel from the frame or the sprocket from the hub. One can also remove an internal from a loose hub in most cases. One can also remove a very tight internal from a hub that has seen high torque/corrosion over many years. None of these things are possible with a spanner.

I've loosened as many as forty internals in an afternoon, and then cut the hubs out of wheels, to have spares, rather than see them go for scrap. I've only ever encountered one internal (ever) that wouldn't shift after a few goes. I guess a spanner might work OK on an internal (of the right type) that hasn't seen that much use on a small-wheeled bike, but it certainly wouldn't work (easily or at all) on many of the others.

I will explain this again, but the reason why a hammer and punch will work when a spanner won't is that there is a small radial clearance in the screw thread. Two smart taps on one side, then two smart taps on the other side (then repeat as necessary) removes even incredibly tight internals (that have been in for decades) reliably without damage.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Mick F »

Sorry Brucey, I still stand by my points.

It's easy and reliable. Simple and quick.
Foolproof in fact.

If it doesn't fit other SA hubs, I care not a jot.
It fits mine perfectly.

No doubt people use a punch because they didn't have the tool that fitted. I see that it's only good as a spanner for tightening, but mounting in a bench vice transforms it into an un-doing tool.
Mick F. Cornwall
bertgrower
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by bertgrower »

You can get a six stud verson of this spanner which will fit the new versons of SA hubs?

I assume this will give a more robust purchase and is stronger.
Brucey
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Brucey »

Mick F wrote:Sorry Brucey, I still stand by my points....


well I have taken hundreds of SA hubs apart (without incident) using a drift; in many cases it would not have been possible using a spanner at all, and in all cases it certainly wouldn't have been quicker.

I like my tools, but this is one you not only can do without, you are arguably better off without it.... :wink:

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Mick F »

Brucey wrote:I like my tools, but this is one you not only can do without, you are arguably better off without it.... :wink:
Why "better off without it"?
How can it be better to use a drift and hammer, than use a tool that fits?
I fail to see the logic.
I can see that it won't last as it's only pressed and not forged, but how much work is it likely to do in my personal DIY toolkit?

I used a drift and hammer for the first couple of times I took the innards out, and I did the same to have a look-see in the RSW16 SA3sp. I don't expect to take the RSW one out again, but there will be a time - another 1,000miles? - that I'll take the Mouton one out. Done it twice with the tool so far (once to try the tool, and once to clean the hub and get some different grease in) and the difference is astounding.

Instead of repeated blows with a hammer, then rotating to the other lug and doing the same, and repeat as necessary, it took perhaps two or three minutes with me bending over with the wheel leaning against my legs until it shifted ..................... with the tool in the bench vice, it took seconds.
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Brucey »

Mick F wrote:
Brucey wrote:I like my tools, but this is one you not only can do without, you are arguably better off without it.... :wink:
Why "better off without it"?....


because a drift is more versatile, is faster to use, and you won't waste time trying to remove an internal which is in there so well the spanner can't shift it.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Mick F »

Nope.
Not in my experience.
The tool is mounted in the vice and the wheel inserted, then the ball ring unscrewed.
Just like that.

Quick as a quick thing.
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
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Re: Tools you never knew you needed until you got one

Post by Brucey »

Mick F wrote:Not in my experience...


but that experience is more or less restricted to internals that have been mounted in small wheels and/or for a relatively short while. They get tighter than that...a lot tighter than that...

cheers
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