Wheel moving in horizontal dropouts

[Bigdummysteve]

No slack that i can detect,I've got a cheap old fashioned internal cam QR to try perhaps without the non drive side tugnut. I suspect that its smooth surface is sliding on the smooth dropout surface, im really not sure what else I can try. I could slam the wheel on the stops and use a tensioner if all else fails but would prefer not to.

[smcknighty]

What happened in the end? I’ve got a surly karate monkey with a Rohloff hub and a wheel that is moving backwards

[smcknighty]

To leave a note for others in the future - non driveside moving back was caused by disc braking. The fix was find an old qr skewer, tighten it to the point of disbelieve that it wasn’t going to shatter. If it slipped again add a quarter of a turn and retry. 40km in its working ok

[Brucey]

in order of increasing clamping force;

- external cam QR
- internal cam QR
- 'long bolt' skewer (i.e. one that you tighten with an allen key)
- track nuts (solid axle)

any of the above can be supplemented with strong chain tugs, but these will normally only prevent movement in one direction.

Track nuts can provide about double the clamping force vs any skewer.

There is a reason why Rohloff recommend using their dropouts with their hubs; between torque reaction on the axle, chain tension, and brake forces, all too often the hub won't reliably stay put in a standard slotted dropout.

cheers

[Tiberius]

I gave this exact scenario some thought when I built up my Surly Troll/Rohloff. Rightly or wrongly, I thought that a skewered Rohloff hub might just slide in a horizontal dropout. This was the main reason that I bought a hub with nuts (Rohloff TS). I still use a Surly tugnut on the drive side...as much for chain tensioning as anything else.

I have no idea if the nutted hub has made a massive difference to wheel movement, but I do know that this bike has now covered circa 7,000 miles and the wheel has never moved in the dropouts.

[Tiberius]

Track nuts can provide about double the clamping force vs any skewer.

I guess that says it all.

[slowster]

I suspect that a Rohloff hub with a quick release in a bike with a horizontal drop out and a disc brake mount on the seat stay, like the Karate Monkey, is asking for trouble. Unlike the Surly Ogre and Troll which have a horizontal drop out designed to be compatible with a Rohloff, the Karate Monkey presumably has to use a Monkey Bone and OEM2 axle plate, the positioning of which will result in the torque reaction being in the same (horizontal) plane as the slot of the drop out. I think the position of the axle plate with the Ogre and Troll drop outs results in the torque reaction being downwards so that it exerts its force against the bottom of the horizontal drop out's slot.

With the Karate Monkey and a Monkey Bone, braking will exert force that pushes the axle on the non-drive side towards the rear of the drop out slot, but the torque reaction of the Rohloff will exert force in the opposite direction towards the front of the drop out slot. I suspect the effect of the repeated cycling of those opposing forces will eventually overcome the clamping force of even the most tightly fastened quick release.

[jacksonz]

I think a solid axle would be the advice from Rohloff.

However, I fitted a QR non-disc Rohloff to a Surly Ogre..... The initial result was an irritating creaking noise coming from the axle on moderate pedal pressure. Subsequently I fitted a Surly tuggnut and a long axle (hex-head) as already indicated. I terminated the axle in an old Campag Record "nut". This fixed the problem.

Perhaps the disc brake may further complicate the picture? Rim brakes appear to be OK.