quill stems

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Si
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Re: quill stems

Postby Si » 23 Jun 2016, 4:33pm

Main problem with quill stems for me is that in most cases they require the steerer to be threaded...which means that it can be a PITA to swap forks between bikes. However the adjustability of the quill stem is much better than the ahead. They can also look better...but that's eye of beholder etc.

MikeF
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Re: quill stems

Postby MikeF » 23 Jun 2016, 6:54pm

pwa wrote: And when I abandoned quill stems there were few available that had an open clamp. You had to thread bars through with no tape, levers, etc. A real pain if you just wanted to change the stem to adjust the reach.
Agreed that is a problem with quill stems especially as there doesn't seem any reason for not having an open clamp, but to me that seems to be the only problem and one that manufacturers could rectify.

The stem clamp on an Ahead system has to perform two very different functions; maintaining the bearing adjustment and clamping the stem, meaning that adjustments cannot be made independently. Not only that, but it's generally used with the crude arrangement of bent piece of metal (star nut) jammed into the steerer tube for adjustment. Also to allow for a range of adjustment of the height of the handlebars the steerer tube must be left long. If aesthetics are a concern this looks odd when the stem is positioned near the head tube.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeDee
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Re: quill stems

Postby MikeDee » 23 Jun 2016, 7:38pm

Mick F wrote:
MikeDee wrote:Greasing the stem only works for a short time. Sweat gets in there.
What??
Gets in where?

New quill stem.
Apply grease on it and on the wedge system, and inside the steerer too.
Fit it and forget it.
If you need to take it out YEARS later, out it comes.


No, sweat gets in there turning said grease to an emulsion rendering its anticorrosive properties nil. Months, not years. I believe the yarchive article addresses it, written by Jobst Brandt. Every steel quill stem I've had, when I removed it, the quill was rusted. I had one aluminum stem seize. The frame was broken so I didn't bother to try to save the stem.

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Mick F
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Re: quill stems

Postby Mick F » 23 Jun 2016, 8:18pm

Every quill stem I've ever had or seen hasn't been rusted through sweat.
Most are anodised aluminium, and some older ones are chromed steel.

Hopefully, any sweaty rider is moving forwards.
Any sweat wouldn't go down through the headset into the steerer at all.

If the quill stem seizes in the steerer, it's because of damp getting UP the tube through the fork crown ............ and not DOWN through the headset.

Yarchive website isn't very good in my experience.
I read a piece on it about how the inner tube in a tyre "frets".
He suggested that if you put a business card between the tube and the tyre, the card will shred.

No it doesn't! :lol:
Tried it.
There's a thread on here about it, and how others have tried it too.

Pinch of salt IMHO.
No sweat down the quill stem.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: quill stems

Postby pete75 » 23 Jun 2016, 9:49pm

MikeDee wrote:
Mick F wrote:
MikeDee wrote:Greasing the stem only works for a short time. Sweat gets in there.
What??
Gets in where?

New quill stem.
Apply grease on it and on the wedge system, and inside the steerer too.
Fit it and forget it.
If you need to take it out YEARS later, out it comes.


No, sweat gets in there turning said grease to an emulsion rendering its anticorrosive properties nil. Months, not years. I believe the yarchive article addresses it, written by Jobst Brandt. Every steel quill stem I've had, when I removed it, the quill was rusted. I had one aluminum stem seize. The frame was broken so I didn't bother to try to save the stem.


Don't blame the quill stem for what sounds like poor maintenance or at least maintenance using unsuitable grease. Mick's experience matches mine.

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Re: quill stems

Postby MikeDee » 23 Jun 2016, 11:53pm

Sorry guys, but I totally disagree with you. Most of the steel stems over here are tig welded and painted, not chromed. Maybe you don't sweat on your stem. Regardless, threadless stems have taken over so this discussion is an exercise in nostalgia. Cheers!

pete75
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Re: quill stems

Postby pete75 » 24 Jun 2016, 8:38am

MikeDee wrote:Sorry guys, but I totally disagree with you. Most of the steel stems over here are tig welded and painted, not chromed. Maybe you don't sweat on your stem. Regardless, threadless stems have taken over so this discussion is an exercise in nostalgia. Cheers!


Most here are aluminium. The sort you describe are generally found on cheap poorly made bikes - the famed BSO.

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Re: quill stems

Postby Brucey » 24 Jun 2016, 8:47am

pete75 wrote:
MikeDee wrote:Sorry guys, but I totally disagree with you. Most of the steel stems over here are tig welded and painted, not chromed. Maybe you don't sweat on your stem. Regardless, threadless stems have taken over so this discussion is an exercise in nostalgia. Cheers!


Most here are aluminium. The sort you describe are generally found on cheap poorly made bikes - the famed BSO.


indeed.

An exercise in nostalgia? Not really; more an exercise in pragmatism.

You can choose whichever system you like; if you actually use your bike in all weathers, I'd suggest that many a-head implementations are very badly thought-out; they very often leak water through the wedge piece into the headset bearings. Keeping a quill stem from seizing up is not at all difficult by comparison.

cheers
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james01
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Re: quill stems

Postby james01 » 24 Jun 2016, 10:43am

In the handlebar department I'm a selective Luddite: a quill system, but with an Aheadset converter for easy front opening clamp handlebar swap works well for me.
(In other areas I'm still 100% Luddite eg. friction gear shifters, bottle dynamos 8) )

pwa
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Re: quill stems

Postby pwa » 24 Jun 2016, 10:47am

I confess that I don't maintain headsets and stems much, but for me the shift from quill to aheadset was a good one. The old headsets, for me at least, were fiddly to lock. That double nut locking system was too crude for me. I found the lock nut could sometimes work loose. The aheadset system is easier for me to get right. And no amount of neglect will end up with a stem stuck in a steerer. I just find it all easier. I accept that those of you who take a bit more care with your stuff can get on with quill stems and their threaded headsets.

My last aheadset to be changed was an FSO Orbit XL2, replaced like for like, and the original had survived many thousands of miles with no maintenance (the shame!) before becoming a bit notchy. I don't remember my threaded headsets lasting any longer.

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Re: quill stems

Postby pete75 » 24 Jun 2016, 11:51am

pwa wrote:I confess that I don't maintain headsets and stems much, but for me the shift from quill to aheadset was a good one. The old headsets, for me at least, were fiddly to lock. That double nut locking system was too crude for me.



Crude? Nowhere near as crude in engineering terms as derailleur gears and how crude is hammering a star fangled nut into the steerer tube.

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Re: quill stems

Postby MikeDee » 24 Jun 2016, 3:34pm

Brucey wrote:
pete75 wrote:
MikeDee wrote:Sorry guys, but I totally disagree with you. Most of the steel stems over here are tig welded and painted, not chromed. Maybe you don't sweat on your stem. Regardless, threadless stems have taken over so this discussion is an exercise in nostalgia. Cheers!


Most here are aluminium. The sort you describe are generally found on cheap poorly made bikes - the famed BSO.


indeed.

An exercise in nostalgia? Not really; more an exercise in pragmatism.

You can choose whichever system you like; if you actually use your bike in all weathers, I'd suggest that many a-head implementations are very badly thought-out; they very often leak water through the wedge piece into the headset bearings. Keeping a quill stem from seizing up is not at all difficult by comparison.

cheers


How do you choose? Virtually all new bikes come with threadless headsets.

How about antiseize compound instead of grease?

Bottoms up

Brucey
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Re: quill stems

Postby Brucey » 24 Jun 2016, 4:52pm

there are things you can do with an A-head but the most common thing is that you don't know you have got a problem until something is wrecked. Very commonly the stem will fill up with water if you leave an A-head bike out in the rain....

By contrast you know you need to grease a quill stem, and it is a no-brainer.

cheers
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nirakaro
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Re: quill stems

Postby nirakaro » 24 Jun 2016, 5:37pm

I do wonder how many of us ride hard enough to drip significant amounts of sweat onto the stem?

MikeDee
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Re: quill stems

Postby MikeDee » 24 Jun 2016, 6:04pm

Brucey wrote:there are things you can do with an A-head but the most common thing is that you don't know you have got a problem until something is wrecked. Very commonly the stem will fill up with water if you leave an A-head bike out in the rain....

By contrast you know you need to grease a quill stem, and it is a no-brainer.

cheers


I fail to see how an A-headset is any more vulnerable in this regard. In fact, they use cartridge bearings instead of open caged bearings. Besides, I never leave any of my bikes out in the rain.