What is the cheapest new touring bike worth getting?

[fastpedaller]

It's not that just the fact you're the first owner and you know it's full history.

You certainly need to be aware of history or fully strip it and know what to look for.... Many years ago an aquaintance had a nasty accident riding a second-hand bike which he'd just bought. The previous owner had (for whatever reason) butt joined the steerer by brazing (rather than replacing the complete tube) and consequently it failed!

[Tangled Metal]

I don't know enough to strip a bike down with confidence. I've not got the time or inclination to learn. Whilst money is an issue I'd still rather pay the premium or downgrade the specification to get a new bike. Doesn't stop me wanting the best for less. Bargains are nice when you find them.

[Psamathe]

I don't know enough to strip a bike down with confidence. I've not got the time or inclination to learn. Whilst money is an issue I'd still rather pay the premium or downgrade the specification to get a new bike. Doesn't stop me wanting the best for less. Bargains are nice when you find them.

Is there any reason why when wanting to buy a 2nd hand bike you cannot agree a price, etc. subject to an inspection by a LBS (paid for by purchaser) - a bit like one used to get AA/RAC surveys before buying a car. Of course only work for local purchases where you can know the LBS - would never trust eBay/online purchase for purchaser to send through a "report" from their LBS.

I'd expect a safety/condition inspection would be pretty cheap for LBS to do, particularly if you were there and noting in writing needed (i.e. as they inspect the tell you "bearings seem fine, chain ok for a bit, etc."

Ian

[531colin]

List of exclusions........
You can't visually check the condition of......
anything carbon fibre, or anything bonded
spokes (for fatigue)....or rim eyelets, etc.
frame alignment....for anything other than a gross mis-alignment you need to strip, measure, check
Steerer tube needs forks stripping out to check
if you are going to strip out the cables to inspect them, you might as well replace them
same with bearings. You can tell if its completely shot (play, rough) but not the wear state, or the condition of the grease, without stripping.

[pete75]

List of exclusions........
You can't visually check the condition of......
anything carbon fibre, or anything bonded
spokes (for fatigue)....or rim eyelets, etc.
frame alignment....for anything other than a gross mis-alignment you need to strip, measure, check
Steerer tube needs forks stripping out to check
if you are going to strip out the cables to inspect them, you might as well replace them
same with bearings. You can tell if its completely shot (play, rough) but not the wear state, or the condition of the grease, without stripping.

So 50 to 60 quid minimum for a meaningful inspection at the lowest labour rates plus parts.

[simonhill]

You then have problems of liability. Could you hold the LBS liable?

Not too bad if it is a knackered bearing, but if you crashed because of an unnoticed problem what then. The LBS would need extra insurance or a list of exclusions a bit like a house survey that would render the inspection almost meaningless.

An LBS may be happy to have a quick look see, but I doubt they would want to commit to much more.

[531colin]

i have paid out a fair bit for public liability insurance over the years, but never tried to make a claim.
Any trader who assumed responsibility for the condition or safety of a random secondhand bicycle based on a visual inspection is probably certifiable, and I doubt any insurance company would pay out on a claim.
You won't find anybody who will insure a trader against any claim arising from a member of the public being admitted to a workshop, either.

are we taking the tyres off to check the carcase, and the rim tapes?

[Brucey]

It's not that just the fact you're the first owner and you know it's full history.

You certainly need to be aware of history or fully strip it and know what to look for.... Many years ago an aquaintance had a nasty accident riding a second-hand bike which he'd just bought. The previous owner had (for whatever reason) butt joined the steerer by brazing (rather than replacing the complete tube) and consequently it failed!

Blimey: sounds like a suicide mission, that....

Having broken quite a few bikes now, I can say with some confidence that 'nothing lasts forever' is a useful axiom, (even if it mightn't be strictly true in some cases). Knowing the way most bikes are built, I'd also say that most frames contain features that are in effect the seeds of their own (eventual) destruction. Sometimes it is design, sometimes materials, sometimes fabrication methods, and very occasionally the bike has seen loads that are abnormal.... but in hindsight every frame or fork that I have broken myself (or have seen others break) has broken for a reason.

If you are buying a used bike with a metal frame, it is easy enough to inspect the frame and fork for cracks. If there are no cracks then you would be incredibly unlucky if it then cracked inside six months of further normal use, so inspections at this kind of interval give some confidence. Obviously the fork needs to be removed in order to check the steerer tube; this is pretty much the only single tube on a bicycle that can break and immediately cause a life-threatening prang; most of the other places where frames break normally still leave you with enough of a bike that you ought usually to be able to stop the (newly floppy) machine before you have an accident.

I would further comment that very few secondhand bicycles have been used so much that (if made properly) they would have the frameset's remaining service life reduced appreciably.

cheers

[Psamathe]

You then have problems of liability. Could you hold the LBS liable?

Not too bad if it is a knackered bearing, but if you crashed because of an unnoticed problem what then. The LBS would need extra insurance or a list of exclusions a bit like a house survey that would render the inspection almost meaningless.

An LBS may be happy to have a quick look see, but I doubt they would want to commit to much more.

I was thinking more about a quick "look see" rather than a formal survey with written report. A bit like a safety check type of thing shops do (I believe). Basically a set of very experienced eyes that would spot things a less experienced purchaser might overlook.

Ian

[531colin]

I can't think why anybody would butt join a steerer.....anybody with sufficient interest to want to extend a steerer will have easy access to bits of tube that can be used to internally sleeve a standard steel steerer......I have extended two steerers, both to try out frames before having new forks made. A bit of one inch steerer sleeves an inch and eighth steerer, and a bit of a quill stem sleeves a one inch steerer. I rode both for a year or so before having new forks made.
Secondhand alloy or carbon steerers want a bit of thinking about, they are a bit too easy to damage by ham-fisted "mechanic-ing" or even by fretting with maladjusted headset bearings.

[fastpedaller]

I can't think why anybody would butt join a steerer.....anybody with sufficient interest to want to extend a steerer will have easy access to bits of tube that can be used to internally sleeve a standard steel steerer......I have extended two steerers, both to try out frames before having new forks made. A bit of one inch steerer sleeves an inch and eighth steerer, and a bit of a quill stem sleeves a one inch steerer. I rode both for a year or so before having new forks made.
Secondhand alloy or carbon steerers want a bit of thinking about, they are a bit too easy to damage by ham-fisted "mechanic-ing" or even by fretting with maladjusted headset bearings.

I agree absolutely. It's amazing what some people do sometimes. I once saw a kit car (member of our car club) where the guy had undone the bolts holding the steering arms to the hub in order the clamp some mudguard stay on - not usually a problem for this particular vehicle. But this guy hadn't realised that if you insert a 1/2" stay you also need to use a new bolt 1/2" longer! The steering arms were hanging on by 3 threads! yikes. The IVA test (alhough expensive) they introduced (like a super MOT test by VOSA) was certainly welcome in some cases.

[Tangled Metal]

You've got to find the ideal second-hand bike, visit it, get it checked out by lbs but that's got no weight behind it due to liability and then buy it. At the end of that you could end up with a cheap but still good bike and you're happy. Or you've been unlucky and got a butt joined steerer and an accident.

Alternative option is buy a cheap bike new at a premium for that. It's at a lower spec but still suitable and capable. You have the protection of consumer rights legislation that's something I guess private second-hand sales do not have. You also have an immaculate bike that's been inspected by manufacturer, safety checked by retailer and unlikely to have defects.

Personally I've never owned a second-hand bike and as my main bike/pride and joy I don't think I'll ever buy second-hand. My partner is considered a rat bike bought second-hand. She's thinking of buying from a very old school bike shop that also sells second-hand. I know a local bike shop that survives on servicing bikes and selling second-hand. I'm guessing servicing business depends at least partly to customer's good experiences with the secondhand bike they sold. Gives you trust.

[MikeF]

The Fuji Tourer isn't well known in the UK but gets excellent reviews in the USA and elsewhere. https://www.evanscycles.com/fuji-tourin ... e-EV241592. The problem is only Evans seem to stock them in the UK and they seem to sell out fairly quickly each year.
I've a 2001 version still going strong.

+1 for the Fuji Touring bike. I must qualify my comment by saying that I never toured on mine but I thought it was ace.

A tourer without mudguards? And there doesn't seem to be any height adjustment for the handlebars.

[irc]

The Fuji Tourer isn't well known in the UK but gets excellent reviews in the USA and elsewhere. https://www.evanscycles.com/fuji-tourin ... e-EV241592. The problem is only Evans seem to stock them in the UK and they seem to sell out fairly quickly each year.
I've a 2001 version still going strong.

+1 for the Fuji Touring bike. I must qualify my comment by saying that I never toured on mine but I thought it was ace.

A tourer without mudguards? And there doesn't seem to be any height adjustment for the handlebars.

And other niggles are no bottle mounts under down tube and no rack mounts on front fork.

[Bonefishblues]

The Fuji Tourer isn't well known in the UK but gets excellent reviews in the USA and elsewhere. https://www.evanscycles.com/fuji-tourin ... e-EV241592. The problem is only Evans seem to stock them in the UK and they seem to sell out fairly quickly each year.
I've a 2001 version still going strong.

+1 for the Fuji Touring bike. I must qualify my comment by saying that I never toured on mine but I thought it was ace.

A tourer without mudguards? And there doesn't seem to be any height adjustment for the handlebars.

With the right mudguards, the widest tyre compatible with this bike would be 42mm.
2 months ago
EvansCyclesPeteJ

Above is an answer on the Evans site re guards and tyres - sounds like a serious touring bike. No, it's not shipped with guards, but of course it is, in relative terms, very cheap, so add what, £25 to the price. Re handlebar height, agree it's unusual to see a cut-down steerer out of the box, so if necessary a stem extender would have to be the way to go.

@irc - see above re cheapness