Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

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Gattonero
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Gattonero » 28 Aug 2016, 11:35am

The Rh bearing race is quite big on Alfine hubs, and is the one that fails most often.
Yours seems healthy 8)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

mischaseb
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Joined: 8 Sep 2016, 7:42pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby mischaseb » 8 Sep 2016, 8:01pm

Brucey wrote:if you want quick and easy, just sling about 50cc of EP90 gear oil into the hub. This appears to mix with the shimano grease reasonably well, and ought to keep the hub from wearing too quickly, for a while, anyway.

When you finally decide to clean the hub innards properly, you ought to find it easier to wash the lube out if you add oil as I have described and have run the hub for a thousand miles or so.

If you just want to clean the hub internally, in a shorter length of time, you could use ATF instead of gear oil. ATF isn't such a good lubricant but it does have a higher detergent rating than most EP gear oils.

When washing the hub innards, you can get the old lube out using a solvent. Just be sure that all the solvent is gone before you add new lube; solvents can significantly degrade the properties of lubricants.

cheers


Hi Brucey,

Joined the forum just to ask you a question, your posts re IGHs are very useful, thanks. I have a neglected Alfine 8 hub on a bike I just bought. I'm planning on following your advice; going to add ATF to use as a detergent for a couple of hundred miles to get rid of the dirty original grease and then grease the hub with Land Rover one-shot swivel grease. What solvent do you suggest for removing the old grease, would isopropyl alcohol do the trick? Further, any suggestions for how much of the land rover grease to add and how to add it?

Brucey
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 8 Sep 2016, 9:42pm

I would add about 50-75cc of the land rover grease. If you don't have/won't install a lube port, just dribble it over the workings before installing them. It ought to be mobile enough to reach every part of the hub internals, with the possible exception of the RH hub bearing (as opposed to the rather larger ring bearing). If the grease doesn't look fluid enough to get around the hub, add some oil as well.

For cleaning, a paraffin bath will shift most of the rubbish in the hub, but paraffin doesn't evaporate that well. Rinsing with something more volatile will help shift the remaining paraffin, so IPA, petrol or similar could be used. Do bear in mind that such solvents are poisonous and if they are volatile, will produce a potentially explosive plume of vapour, too.

There is in fact something to be said for adding lots of lube to the hub; if there is an excess (vs the ability of the seals to contain it), it will simply come out somewhere and make a mess. Provided this doesn't get onto the tyres and/or the brakes, it won't do any real harm.

hth

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mischaseb
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby mischaseb » 13 Sep 2016, 8:42am

Perfect, thanks very much! I'll report back after it's done.

Suffolker
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Suffolker » 13 Sep 2016, 8:55am

My Alfine hub has a hydraulic disc brake, and the Nexus and SA roller and drum brakes. I'm planning to use the Land-Rover SFG rather than oil, if I can, as I'm concerned about drum and disc brakes being contaminated.

Other than putting a thick grease into or around the portside shell/axle/bearings to try to retain the SFG that side, is there anything else that might help? When I get the things to pieces, I'll try to work out if there's any chance of using an additional o-ring or similar.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 13 Sep 2016, 9:40am

in an A8 hub if the LH seal is in good condition I don't think that the lube will come out and contaminate the brake. The same goes for the latest disc brake N8 version. You can tell if it is likely to be a problem ahead of time by unscrewing the brake lockring and inspecting the cavity behind; if the seal is leaking, the lube will be caught in this space before it gets out onto the disc.

If you have an N8 with a roller brake, there is no seal on the LH side of the hub. However it doesn't really matter that much if a little hub lube escapes into the brake; it is greased anyway.

SA brake hubs can have the LH seal upgraded with a little DIY effort. The method I have used is to invert the pressed steel part set into the hubshell, then fit a couple of 'O' rings between that and the brake plate. This works OK provided there is a sheet metal washer between the brake plate and the cone (the brake plate casting would tear the O rings up very quickly otherwise). If the O rings are a snug fit they may drag a bit to start with but they will soon wear to a better fit. Using this method the hub will typically be OK with copious SFG inside it but won't be well sealed enough for use with excess oil. [BTW this method works best if the LH bearing is adapted to use loose balls rather than caged balls; this makes for a stronger bearing (there are more balls in it, and no clip to break up) but it is also more difficult to assemble.]

The other way that might work is to use the method suggested on Sheldon Brown's website, using Silicone sealant, but I have not tried it on this part.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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willpom
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby willpom » 10 Sep 2018, 2:55pm

Dragging this back up as new to the Alfine 8 and need to do its first service.

So from what I've read the following would be a good course of action; excluding adding an oil port as I'm happy to disassemble periodically:


Anything else I should be looking at doing?

Thanks

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 10 Sep 2018, 4:03pm

the simplest thing is to leave the internal in situ and just add gear oil via the LHS, having unscrewed the LH cone. This avoids any issues with the internal being inadvertently knocked/damaged/bits lost and will keep the hub very happy indeed. Do this once a year and the hub ought to keep very well.

The seals in the hub will only continue to work if the seal lips are kept wetted with lubricant. Ditto the bearings inside the hub. With intact seals gear oil will be OK. However if the seals are already damaged then you only have one good choice; to lube the hub with a really good SFG (the land rover stuff) because nothing else (that is readily available) will withstand winter UK conditions.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

slowster
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Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby slowster » 11 Sep 2018, 10:49am


The grease is available in three different containers:
- the sachet shown in your ebay link for which you simply cut off the corner to squeeze out the grease
- a sachet with a screw lid and a supplied plastic tube to press onto the nozzle after unscrewing the lid (https://www.paddockspares.com/stc3435-one-shot-grease.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImKvpwNGy3QIVUOJ3Ch0cnwxjEAQYAiABEgK1A_D_BwE)
- a plastic bottle with tapered nozzle (https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/322559988760?chn=ps)

Obviously the first is intended for a one time use where all the grease is expelled, since unlike the other two containers it cannot be readily resealed. Even if you are going to transfer all the grease into a grease gun, I would suggest that the second type of sachet has an advantage of being able to use the plastic tube to fill the gun from the bottom (with the tip of the tube submerged in the grease), and so minimise introducing any air bubbles.

I bought the second type after initially planning to get the rigid bottles, because I concluded that even with its semi-fluid properties, it would be harder to get the grease out of the rigid bottle as it got close to being empty, whereas you can just squeeze the sachet.

Although the packaging on the containers differs, with the Land Rover branding on the single use sachets, I'm fairly sure they are all the same product.

kalovsky
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018, 2:37pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby kalovsky » 29 Nov 2018, 2:58pm

Scouring forums before I crack open my Alfine 8 hub for a second re-lubricating and looking for some advice.

I did a gear oil bath and after reassembling it ran like a dream, but after a few days (and on the first cold/rainy day) I started noticing that the hub would sometimes take longer to engage after coasting. Normally, takes only a few degrees of forward pedaling before solidly locks in, but every once in a while, I spin forward, sometimes a full 180 degrees, before it engages again.

It does engage solidly so a quick spin is suddenly re-engaged. And no slipping or problems shifting. I'm guessing some remnants of the old white solidified grease may have remained and are slowing down the change from coasting to engaged, but I've yet to wrap my head around how that mechanism engages. Hoping to have an idea where and what to look for.

By the way, I soaked in synthetic 70W-90 gear oil, let drip, and then liberally coated pretty much everything with white lithium grease. I may have been too liberal? Are there areas where I should avoid heavy greasing. And is white lithium grease acceptable or should I look for something else?

Thanks for any advice!

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 29 Nov 2018, 3:22pm

most of the oil will have run out of the hub if you let it drip, leaving only what clings to surfaces or has managed to soak into the dried grease inside the hub; not enough oil IME. Adding white lithium grease is asking for trouble; IME this description covers a multitude of sins; most greases of this type I have encountered are prone to drying out and turning to something the consistency of cheese.

Depending the model of Alfine 8 you probably have a spring-preloaded roller clutch that takes the drive from the internal to the hubshell. This isn't the only place where the slippage might occur but (given what you have done to the hub) it seems to me that this is the most likely.

If you want to try something that might help matters and won't take long to do, remove the LH cone and add a load of gear oil to the hub (25 to 50cc). Then ride the hub for a few days or weeks. If the problem was dried sticky grease then it should improve noticeably as time goes on.

However there is a chance that the hub will now leak oil. If it does then in future you need to keep using grease or preferably use a SFG (semi fluid grease) in this hub. If the hub does not leak oil at an unacceptable rate then this will tell you how much lube you can have inside the hub; more than you might think, I'd expect.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kalovsky
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018, 2:37pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby kalovsky » 29 Nov 2018, 4:41pm

Wow. Thanks for the super fast response. I suspect I'm afflicted with the cheese like globs as some did drop out in my oil bath, but I didn't do excessive cleaning.

I'll have some time this weekend so for completeness, I plan on opening up again and getting rid of the white grease. So you recommend leaving in excess oil? Do I need grease at all if I'm flooding with oil? At least at the bearings no?

Thanks again!

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 29 Nov 2018, 11:55pm

you can grease the bearings if you like but part of the reason why I suggest adding oil and running the hub 'as is' is that you will see very clearly how the lube gets around your hub, in your use.

BTW with a #2 grease I the bearings I worry that the seal lips won't be completely wetted with lube, and will wear out/leak prematurely.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kalovsky
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018, 2:37pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby kalovsky » 5 Dec 2018, 11:33pm

Couldn't find the time for a complete re-lube so tried your suggestion of pouring in about 40mL of gear oil.

Next day it ran like a dream, but by second day started noticing some skipping. Not like my original spinning-after-coasting problem, but would skip either on a shift or just randomly. Quickly deteriorated till I found that gears 5,6,7, and 8 wouldn't engage at all. Would just spin with a slight rattling. Gears 1-4 still worked flawlessly.

Since just adding oil changed my issues so drastically, it must just be some foreign blob or other contaminant that the oil was able to move to another area. So I'll need to find the time to completely open up and clean thoroughly. I'll let you know what I dig up.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Penrite SF Grease for Alfine 8?

Postby Brucey » 5 Dec 2018, 11:56pm

that's weird.... :shock: :shock:

For the symptoms you describe to have occurred, it would seem that the sliding clutch has stopped working altogether. This is part #9 here

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-SG-S501-2788C.pdf

and is pushed into engagement by a spring that isn't terribly strong.

It could be that something has indeed come adrift inside and simply been moved around. It is also possible that there is a big clod of dried grease that has come free from where it has been lurking but hasn't fully softened yet. I shall be interested in what you find.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~