Cycling UK Forum

Hello Everyone,

I am new here, but I have been lurking for a long time, so I want to say hi to everyone before I ask my first question.

I am trying to restore my Dads old bike for him as he has given up smoking and I am trying to encourage him to do something healthy! His bike needs a new headset but I can't find one for love nor money It is an old Triumph town bike, but I think it was made by Raleigh in the 1970's possibly. The steerer is 1" dia and is threaded to 26 tpi. I have tried Ebay and everywhere I can think of but to no avail. So I was wondering if anyone has one they might sell me, I would be very grateful.

Many Thanks for reading this..

James Green.

Welcome to the forum.
What's wrong with the headset?

Thanks Mike,

Unfortunately the threads are a bit iffy on the threaded parts and there is quite a lot of rust and pitting in the cups (if that is the right term)
the fork steerer threads are ok though, just 26 tpi. I am toying with the idea of welding on a length of tube to the steerer and fitting a threadless headset and ahead stem, if I have no joy. But it would be a shame to fit anything other than a quill stem. Hope that makes sense.

James

normally the lower races are subject to most wear and the upper races are still quite usable, even in rather grotty looking Raleigh headsets.

The threaded upper race is normally quite difficult to 'damage' since IIRC the whole thing (threads and all) is hardened. The locknut is softer and can be damaged more easily.

There are still thousands of old bikes knocking round with these headsets on; I would say that you ought to be able to find a headset on a scrap bike at your local recycling centre, for example.

You can instead renew just the lower races which can give a good steering action in many cases.

At least one LBS near me just forces a 24tpi steel headset onto a 26tpi fork these days when they are faced with this problem and don't have a 26tpi headset to use. It is absolute butchery but it seems to work reasonably well. There are a few headsets in which the locknut is a Zinc die-casting; I would imagine that these can be mounted more easily to a steerer with the wrong pitch thread on it.

NB it is as well to note what the threaded parts actually do; when the locknut is tightened, the threaded race is forced down onto the tops of the thread form on the steerer, and the locknut is forced against the underside of the thread form on the steerer. At this stage the loads on each part (with low bearing preload) are equal. In service the threaded race sees loads that reduce the vertical load between it and the steerer, but increase the tilting (rocking) load as the forks twang back and forth. The vertical load between the steerer and the locknut is increased in service.

When a headset is run loose, the rocking of the threaded race tends to wear and strip the threads on the steerer, local to the threaded race. Eventually the threads will strip badly enough that the headset cannot be tightened any more. The threads above that, where the locknut engages, are usually OK. I have repaired many steerers by adding locally built-up areas of weld metal to the worn part of the threads, then dressing back and recutting the thread where the threaded race bears. This gives a very satisfactory repair even if the thread area is only about half that it might have been originally, provided the locknut is properly snug.

So (finally the point...ahem... ) you can see that the quality of the fit between the threaded race and the steerer need not be that good in order for the headset to work. If the fit is a bit substandard, a bit of threadlock will often sort it out. It is however important that the locknut has decent threads on it, because it sees increased loads in service. Note also that if the head tube is very short, the rocking loads on the threaded race are increased considerably, and the fit etc needs to be better.

hth

cheers

Thanks Brucey for taking the time to share such brilliant advice. You have given me a lot to digest, thanks very much.
James

Unless I'm missing the point plenty of 26tpi x 1'' headsets out there just google the size

I have searched high and low online and can't find one lol.
Regards

Is there one in this advert?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Etc-Threaded- ... rmvSB=true
sorry I'm no expert this is simply from a quick google.
good luck

one of the headset models in that listing is this one;

EHS012
H/SET 22.2 X 30 X 27 STEEL BLACK 26 TPI
BMX HEADSETS THREADED
1" STEEL
26TPI

which is close, but if I read it right, no cigar IMHO. I can't remember if this is correct or not (I expect it is) but Sheldon lists the Raleigh headset as having a 26.4mm crown race dimension and a 30.2mm dimension where the cups enter the frame.

I daresay a little machining work could overcome those discrepancies (you would have to make up a 0.3mm wall spacer for the crown race) but I would also say that the ETC headset likely has the wrong stack height, by about 5-10mm. Can't say for sure, because they don't quote a dimension.

cheers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Etc-Threaded- ... rmvSB=true

Thanks for that, but I have already inquired, out of stock :-/

Thanks again for the further information, good job it was out of stock then, else I might have bought that one lol.

Looks like I might have found one, but for this price I think I'll pass lol!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raleigh-Chopp ... Sw6n5XtLDR

James.

You'll need to find two, James, coz I've got the same problem, which is why the frame in the avatar top right is a frame and not a complete bicycle! You'll get first dibs though.

I've got the fork to go with the frame - I bought the bike, a Carlton 531 TEN (effectively a re-badged Raleigh Super Course, or just about), new in 1977 - but the threads are 26 tpi. I actually got one of the ETC 26 tpi headsets, but curiously it still didn't screw on to the threads, even though it screwed quite happily all the way on to two 24 tpi non-Raleigh forks I have. Don't understand that.

There are a fair few new forks for 27 inch wheels on ebay, mostly manufactured by Sunlite, I think, quite reasonably priced but sourced from the USA, so the shipping charges push the price up. They're threaded for a 24 tpi headset, but I still wouldn't know which headset would fit the frame.

I wrote about this before on one of Samuel D's threads, but I bought the Carlton to go to the Le Mans 24 Hour Race in 1977; it was the best trip I ever went in my life, and it means more to me than anything else, so it would be nice to build it up into a complete bike again some day. It sat for years in a leaky wet garage and at some point I stripped it and threw out all the components, leaving only the frame and fork. I've still got the upper and lower headset cups, though, and the crown race, so I don't know if that will help. Just need an upper race and locknut that will screw on to the fork.

kylecycler wrote:... I actually got one of the ETC 26 tpi headsets, but curiously it still didn't screw on to the threads, even though it screwed quite happily all the way on to two 24 tpi non-Raleigh forks I have. Don't understand that.

that is actually a pretty good sign that the ETC headsets may be wrongly listed. I don't know that for sure but that'd be my best guess. You ought to be able to check the thread pitch, using a gauge or another part with the same pitch.

If you can get hold of a 26tpi axle (eg a 3/8" x 26tpi axle which is a common size for rear nutted axles and some fronts, or a SA three-speed axle which also has a 26tpi thread) then you will be able to sit the axle in the headset threads. If the threads are the same it will mesh perfectly and sit square. If the threads are a different pitch, it won't quite; you will be able to rock the parts slightly and the parts won't want to settle in any one place even if you are squeezing them together with finger and thumb.

cheers

The mystery deeps. I decided to bite the bullet last night and have cut the threads off. I will weld on a length of 25.4mm and fit a threadless headset and ahead stem and spacers. I will use an insert at 22.2mm dia, drill and plug weld the lot together then weld the two steerers butted together. This should result in a strong job.

Thanks to everyone for their input. I am really enjoying working on this bike, have visited the Ceeway website I am really tempted to have a go and building my own frame now lol.

Regards

James