Are expensive gear cables really all that?

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gloomyandy
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby gloomyandy » 15 Sep 2016, 5:47pm

Some expensive cable sets come with various special bellow like covers and ferrules that are designed to stop water getting inside the outer casing. I had a set like this made by Gore for SRAM. To be honest there were so many parts and so little instruction that I gave up and just used the basic parts and some grease! But if you have a bike that is used in the wet a lot they may make a difference.

reohn2
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Sep 2016, 7:57pm

FWIW,IME,I much prefer stainless steel inner wires,when I've used the Teflon coated inners sooner or later the coating comes off and gums up the inside of the outer,I stopped using them some years ago.
Shimano used to market pre-stretched SS inner cables,but I haven't them for some while now(they may still say that on their cables I don't know),I usually pay about £3 or £3.50 for a SS inner wire.

Outer casings,I've never had any troubles with either nylon(?) lined,wound up brake*,or linear strand gear outers of various makes.



*according to some people 'compressionless' brake outers are a must for full length disc brake outers,though up until reading about them on here I'd never heard to term.
I bought a new MTB about 18months ago which was advertised as having Jagwire compressionless brake housings,but I can't find any difference between the ordinary wound up nylon(?) lined outer I've been using for the last six or seven years :?
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Stevek76
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby Stevek76 » 15 Sep 2016, 8:52pm

reohn2 wrote:I bought a new MTB about 18months ago which was advertised as having Jagwire compressionless brake housings,but I can't find any difference between the ordinary wound up nylon(?) lined outer I've been using for the last six or seven years :?


'Compressionless' typically have a layer of lengthways steel reinforcement like modern gear cables but then have a layer outside that to stop the inner rupturing though, jagwire use Kevlar for this in their KEB cables. I've certainly noticed that to feel much less 'woolly' than the CGX-SL cabling that came on another bike which seems to be the usual steel coil type, even on the relatively short front brake.

reohn2
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby reohn2 » 16 Sep 2016, 10:05am

Stevek76 wrote:'Compressionless' typically have a layer of lengthways steel reinforcement like modern gear cables but then have a layer outside that to stop the inner rupturing though, jagwire use Kevlar for this in their KEB cables. I've certainly noticed that to feel much less 'woolly' than the CGX-SL cabling that came on another bike which seems to be the usual steel coil type, even on the relatively short front brake.


I can only repeat what I posted before,that I can't detect any appreciable difference between the two types with the ordinary wound up casing being on drop barred bikes,one being a tandem,and the Jagwire compressionless casing fitted to a straight bar MTB.All four bikes have BB7 calipers and rotors.
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Manc33
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby Manc33 » 16 Sep 2016, 4:33pm

I ordered 2 cables for about £4 on eBay (Jagwire) then saw further down 2 cables for £2.50 (Clarks) sigh. :roll: I would have got the Clarks ones if I had seen them first but sneaky sellers list "From £0.99 to £4.99" so it comes above the ones that are actually cheaper.

Those semi-duff ones I got from China were I think some being sold off because they were like that, hence the price.

The best cable I have ever seen came with a shifter I bought used but it was from a front mech so the cable was too short for me to use. That thing looked and felt expensive, whatever it was. It had a Teflon coating.

I reckon its worth investing in ones that at least are branded. Whether Teflon is better I have no idea, I don't think I would spend that much on cables though.

CRC was doing the XTR kit (2 cable, housing and ferrules) for about a tenner (RRP they say is £31.99 or something crazy). Already used those cables lol. I swap about a lot so... maybe the best bet is get 20 gear cables in one go for £20 or whatever. "granniegear" was doing that many at that price, a while back.

Neilo wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112022321519?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=410959609136&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

£5 for the four cables would be good value, and it's always good to have some outer cable lying around.
They all work fine.
Makes it cheaper to experiment with different bars, shifters and brake levers as well.


Yeah thats cheap as hell for 2 brake cables, 2 gear cables and housing.

2 gear cables alone costs £5 from most places once shipping is factored in.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

Brucey
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby Brucey » 16 Sep 2016, 5:05pm

reohn2 wrote:
Stevek76 wrote:'Compressionless' typically have a layer of lengthways steel reinforcement like modern gear cables but then have a layer outside that to stop the inner rupturing though, jagwire use Kevlar for this in their KEB cables. I've certainly noticed that to feel much less 'woolly' than the CGX-SL cabling that came on another bike which seems to be the usual steel coil type, even on the relatively short front brake.


I can only repeat what I posted before,that I can't detect any appreciable difference between the two types with the ordinary wound up casing being on drop barred bikes,one being a tandem,and the Jagwire compressionless casing fitted to a straight bar MTB.All four bikes have BB7 calipers and rotors.


I think it may be important whether you are using 'MTB' or 'road' spec calipers. The latter use higher cable tensions and any cable housing compression can make a bigger difference.

cheers
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Stevek76
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby Stevek76 » 16 Sep 2016, 5:45pm

reohn2 wrote:I can only repeat what I posted before,that I can't detect any appreciable difference between the two types with the ordinary wound up casing being on drop barred bikes,one being a tandem,and the Jagwire compressionless casing fitted to a straight bar MTB.All four bikes have BB7 calipers and rotors.


Sorry, I wasn't doubting that, just wasn't sure if the outers were fully compressionless, I've seen bikes advertised as having such when infact they have outers that jagwire etc will list as merely low compression on their own site.

Brucey had a point though, i used to have normal cable discs on flat bars with the longer vbrake pull and they didn't feel woolly at all.

Also there's a chance that Evans did a slightly sloppy job with the cable ends on my bike with the poor feel which would obviously add slack, i keep failing to get around to investigating that.

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hondated
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby hondated » 16 Sep 2016, 6:07pm

Good question and rather apt for me as I am building up a bike with Shimano Ultegra 6800 parts and by what I have read I need to buy the specific 11 speed cables, Which is a pain as I have plenty of other new cables in my parts box so does any one think I can use these or do I have to buy the specific ones.

reohn2
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby reohn2 » 16 Sep 2016, 7:31pm

Brucey wrote:I think it may be important whether you are using 'MTB' or 'road' spec calipers. The latter use higher cable tensions and any cable housing compression can make a bigger difference.

cheers


Road calipers on the the two Vayas both with Tektro RL340's and the Cannondale tandem with 105 9sp STI's,Circe Tandem with MTN calipers and Tektro RL5540's,MTN calipers on the Genesis Longitude MTB with Deore MTB levers
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reohn2
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby reohn2 » 16 Sep 2016, 7:44pm

Stevek76 wrote:Sorry, I wasn't doubting that, just wasn't sure if the outers were fully compressionless, I've seen bikes advertised as having such when infact they have outers that jagwire etc will list as merely low compression on their own site.

I have to admit to being ignorant of the nuances of different compressionless casings,I've only been aware of the existence of them for a couple of years :?
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niggle
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby niggle » 17 Sep 2016, 10:16am

Re gear cable inners, I find that Clarks stainless will need re-adjustment after a couple of rides but will then settle down fine, more expensive ones e.g. Shimano or Jagwire don't seem to do this, but it is not a major issues, though possibly the better ones also run slightly more smoothly and I have found that Clarks gear outers do not seem to last very long before the inner lining wears- indicated by erratic rear shifting, the main problem being at the rear loop section from chainstay to rear mech, even though I do try to make this so it haves as big a radius as possible.

Re brake cables, when I recently renovated an old Raleigh loop frame 3 spd for my daughter the single pivot caliper brakes were quite ineffective and the levers felt quite squishy with the traditional spiral wound cable outers, so as well as fitting alloy rims I put a set of BMX "linear" cables on, which absolutely transformed the lever feel. They are not expensive, bit of a bargain IMO, but unfortunately they have since run out of black: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/weth ... prod135567 They have other brands if the remaining colours don't suit your bike. The outers are a bit thicker and much stiffer than spiral wound ones., but you will have to pay more for a black set, plus swap the inners for drop bar levers.

Re Campag cables, these are quite expensive to buy as a full bike set, but they came with the Veloce levers I bought for my touring bike build in 2012 and they have lasted quite well, just one gear cable failed at the shifter end, where on Ergos it goes through a sharpish turn.

De Sisti
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby De Sisti » 17 Sep 2016, 11:10am

Vetus Ossa wrote:I have one ergo levered bike set up with cheap as chips inner and outer brake and gear cables. They work every bit as well as my campagnolo cables.

Did you have to shave the nipple-end a bit? They are usually smaller on Campag gear cables.

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bikes4two
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby bikes4two » 17 Sep 2016, 1:20pm

> I always use cheap cables for brakes and gears - Clarke's, Jagwire, eBay etc - and have never had a failure or other problem.
> Cheap brake outers too but I always take great care to gett flush and smooth ends after cutting, and then fit ferrules.
> Do I get shifting issues? I guess I do in that I need to tweak the indexing now and again and lube/clean exposed cable parts, but none that ever worry me as they might if I were a road racer but I'm a touring cyclist so sharp, snappy gear changes are nice but not essential to me.
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meic
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby meic » 17 Sep 2016, 1:40pm

The OP did specifically ask about inner cables but now that we have drifted off topic, I will join in with my opinion.
After converting to stainless cables the most significant and noticeable improvement for me was fitting good seals on the outer cables, especially the one near the rear derailleur and most noticeably those with the long "snouts".
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod67788
bottom right in that array of parts.

Now my cables need no attention until they fray and snap in the STI units (rear about 6,000 miles) or the ends of the outers start to come apart at the frame adjusters in the ferrule, splitting or rusting from rotation and bending as the bars are turned.
Compared to early days with "open" outers wanting regular cleaning and lubricating and rusty galvanised cables.
Yma o Hyd

Manc33
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Re: Are expensive gear cables really all that?

Postby Manc33 » 17 Sep 2016, 7:02pm

I just replaced the 50p "China" cable with a real Jagwire. The difference was certainly noticeable on the 11-13t gear change. I did cut the housing very slightly shorter which might have helped it a little.

Thats the best indicator IMO, at that last gear change from the smallest sprocket to the next one up (you guys all call "down" lol).

Cheap rear mechs make it not change well there, bad housing setups make it not change well there, crap cables make it not change well there.

As long as the H limit screw is where its meant to be, the barrel adjuster is as good as you can get it, with the b-tension where it should be... how well it shifts between these two sprockets always seems to be an indicator for the rest of the cassette.

For example on the 50p China cable, I was getting a tiny bit of "tinkling" shifting to a smaller sprocket on certain sprockets, sometimes. It wasn't enough to make the chain skip but the tinkling is there slightly. So that means it wasn't releasing exactly back to where it was... the Jagwire cable seemed to fixed that.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.