alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

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emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 5 Nov 2016, 5:42pm

hi..
do you happen to know where can i find JUST the shell replacement for the alfine 11?


i seem to have broken the shell..

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 5 Nov 2016, 5:58pm

oh dear, that is unfortunate! If it is less than two years old it should be under warranty.

http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-S700-3092A_v1_m56577569830799961.pdf

for SG-S700 suggests that the hubshell is not a spare part that is available separately. However I'd be amazed if no-one has ever bought a complete hub in order just to have the internals, or has scrapped a hub with a good shell, so I'd imagine that someone out there may have a spare hubshell...

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 5 Nov 2016, 6:40pm

you don't have to be amazed, you're looking at a person who bought a complete a hub just for the internals , that was before i knew the entire the entire assembly was also available (which i also bought and placed in this one)
the original one is around 6 years old and on and off, so i'm pretty sure i'm way off the warranty zone,

now i've taken it apart , and i'm starting to wonder , does this look broken to you? i'm actually surprised it's a seperate part
Image

Image

there were warning sings of strange klunks...

i wonder you can press-fit back in.. perhaps it was my fault for when i inserted the hub too strongly..

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 5 Nov 2016, 6:55pm

I'm not sure exactly how that part is constructed, either. I must say it looks as if it ought all to be one piece, simply because a mechanical joint over that small area would surely struggle to withstand the loads under braking (when a disc brake is fitted). Even if it is a one-piece construction, it looks as if there would be a terrible stress concentration in the corner. I think it is clear now how they made the 11s hub as light as they did!

Often shimano hubs can be bought whole more cheaply than the entire internal assembly. It is a crazy world!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 6 Nov 2016, 8:42am

i have a guy who says he can peak weld it

you know one of the main reasons i went with alfine 11 even though i was told it's weaker (especially for what i'm using it for) was it's the only IGH which has rapid fire shifters, and i HATE twist shifters, the whole concepts eludes me, because i have ergonomic grips, and twisting will always make me lose the grip, not to mention lose my grip on the brake levers.

now that i'm starting my forey into 3d printing, i'm re-thinking about the possibility on making my own.
i already read someone else once of thought of it.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=51775.0

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2016, 10:42am

'peak weld'?? You mean TIG weld? Worth a try but I think you will cook the LH bearing race and soften it. Maybe you can knock the cup out before welding and then refit it afterwards? Or use something to chill the race during welding?

BTW Alfine 8 has a trigger shifter option (as well as a J-tek thumbshifter option) and Rohloff has (aftermarket, and shortly OEM) underbar shifting options too.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 6 Nov 2016, 10:59am

yes , i think we call peak welding

yes i know about alfine 8, has trigger shifter, but i would imagine it has the same design problem as the 11 ?

as for the underbar shifting for rohloff , do you mean? http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/05/30/roh ... bpod-pshr/

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2016, 12:41pm

re rohloff, yes there is that and the Gebla system (also mentioned in that article). In addition Rohloff are meant to be working on their own system I think.

Alfine 8 hubs are not built the same way as A11 hubs; there is a small diameter drive location in the LH end of the hubshell and this is normally achieved via a separate steel insert. In N8 hubs this insert also includes the LH ballrace; IIRC the same is true of A8 hubs too. So the centrelock disc mount is built differently for sure; in A8 hubs it is larger diameter where it blends with the hubshell. I can't say if it is actually stronger or not but I have not seen one break.

I have never heard of the term 'peak welding' used in English as a synonym for TIG welding; where are you from? Could this be a mistranslation?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 6 Nov 2016, 1:18pm

i'm from israel :)
so there might be a translation problem.

so you're saying alfine 8 maybe more robust then 11?

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2016, 2:24pm

emaayan wrote:...so you're saying alfine 8 maybe more robust then 11?


well, it is possible the hubshell might be stronger.

BTW it seems that the current Nexus 8 hub is almost identical the present Alfine 8; the Nexus 8 now has a disc mount and the internals are identical part numbers IIRC. I think maybe the sealing is a bit different. This makes the Nexus 8 hub very good value; it ought to run from an Alfine 8 trigger shifter too.

BTW older N8 and A8 models default to low gear with a slack cable; the latest versions default to high gear with a slack cable instead. Be sure to get the matching model of shifter; if the wrong sort is fitted the gear indicator will read wrongly, amongst other things.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

emaayan
Posts: 24
Joined: 1 Mar 2016, 10:49pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby emaayan » 6 Nov 2016, 2:26pm

so what's the difference between Alfine and nexus now?

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2016, 2:51pm

external appearance (definitely) and sealing (possibly).

You can check and compare part numbers by looking up the EV techdocs for each hub.

The current Alfine 8 is SG-S7000-8

Image

and IIRC the equivalent Nexus 8 is SG-C6000-8D

Image

There are other N8 models with different brake fittings (coaster, roller etc) which are more different to the A8 hub I think.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Phil_Chadwick
Posts: 204
Joined: 8 Oct 2016, 10:08am

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Phil_Chadwick » 6 Nov 2016, 9:23pm

The Alfine 8 trigger shifter works rather well. I bought a J-Tek bar end shifter but I haven't bothered with it yet...

gerrymcm
Posts: 446
Joined: 30 Oct 2012, 2:52pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby gerrymcm » 6 Nov 2016, 10:36pm

Microshift do shifters for the Shimano 7 and 8 IGHs
http://www.microshift.com.tw/city_internal_gear.html

Brucey
Posts: 35529
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: alfine 11 hub shell replacment?

Postby Brucey » 7 Nov 2016, 9:22am

Phil_Chadwick wrote:The Alfine 8 trigger shifter works rather well....


-there are several different ones; the early hubs use a low normal setup (eg SL-S500, SLS503) and the current models use a high normal setup (e.g. SL-S7000-8).

It is a reasonable assumption that if the leftmost digit in the gear indicator is a '1' then it is the former sort and if the leftmost digit is an '8' then it is the latter variety. I have heard of folk using 'the wrong shifter for the hub' without apparent ill effect (apart from the gear display being wrong) and in fairness the 4-5 cable pull (which differs most from the rest) is the same in each case, but the 1-2 and 7-8 cable pulls are also slightly different between the shifters IIRC. This would make me uneasy about using the wrong shifter for the hub.

BTW there are several different SL-S503 part numbers which are allegedly specific to which cassette joint you use. I think the cable pulls are the same, and the difference arises in the ferrules that fit between the cable housing and the cassette joint.

gerrymcm wrote:Microshift do shifters for the Shimano 7 and 8 IGHs<br abp="651">http://www.microshift.com.tw/city_internal_gear.html


IIRC these shifters have been created by starting with a shifter design that was meant to pull about 3mm per shift (for shimano derailleurs) and then installing a larger radius pulley inside with a slight change to the index disc to give the uneven cable pulls that an IGH demands. The end result is a shifter with (certainly in 7s form) the worst internal cable routing that I have ever seen; the cable will be chafing on the male end of the barrel adjuster from day one and this will cause both binding and cable failure sooner rather than later.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~