reohn2 wrote:...SinL's are the R model (drops,Shimano 9sp Tiagra STI's)
next time you are a fettlin' perhaps you could see whether they manifest a/b/c type behaviour?
cheers
reohn2 wrote:...SinL's are the R model (drops,Shimano 9sp Tiagra STI's)
Brucey wrote:reohn2 wrote:...SinL's are the R model (drops,Shimano 9sp Tiagra STI's)
next time you are a fettlin' perhaps you could see whether they manifest a/b/c type behaviour?
cheers
reohn2 wrote:Bmblbzzz wrote:Yes, it probably is largely down to poor adjustment or maintenance but TBH I think that is the result of bad design. The internet is full of people complaining about how hard it is to properly adjust their brakes. This applies to all sorts of brakes, not just disc brakes; anecdotally, cantis would seem to be the hardest. An awful lot of people find it difficult, fiddly, or non-obvious to adjust their brakes so that they work effectively, don't rub, wear evenly, etc. The only ones you don't hear any complaints about are drums and those Magura hydraulic rim brakes, which is probably because they're uncommon in Britain. Definitely something manufacturers should take on board.
I don't think for one minute it's bad design.
IMO a lot of people don't take the trouble to learn how to maintain things,brakes are just one.
It's never been easier for someone with even a modicum of mechanical application with the aid of Youtube to learn how to maintain a bicycle,
but in a throw away society people seem to expect lifetime trouble free use,then buy a new one.If people were as addicted to maintenance as they are to shopping their bikes would be much better.
When I use to fit UPVC windows and doors I always made a point before leaving the job,of explaining that the locking systems(particularly the three hook bolt door locks),needed lubing from time to time even showing the customer where and how by demonstration.
If I got a call back it in the first two or three weeks it was always the hinges needing slight adjustment after settling in,which was my job.
If the call came after a few months or longer it was always a lack of lubrication which I always attended but explained they needed periodic lubrication easily done with WD40.
I'm convinced some people look at something mechanical and just cover their eyes in fear and call 'someone who knows what they're doing' or pretend it'll heal itself and use it anyway until it breaks.
My SinL's Marin,which is used to commute lmost daily in all weathers,and has low end Promax Render discs.
I service the bike when he thinks it's either not stopping as it should or it's 'making funny noises',the chain is always drier than a dry thing in the desert in summer,little or no maintenance is the norm with this bike.
But the brakes do stop it surprisingly well even when the levers(drops) are almost touching the 'bars and the pads almost down to the backing .
I've just serviced it and fitted new pads so he'll need telling about how good they'll be when rides it and there's little free play in the levers.
Brucey wrote:OK, but 'how much useful arm travel did you have left?' is the question....?
cheers
Bmblbzzz wrote:Yes, I agree. This is why I called it 'bad design'. Outside of specialist uses such as racing or audax (and often even within those, certainly audax), people are by and large not going to 'learn' how to maintain something. As you say, they "cover their eyes in fear or use it anyway until it breaks." This is why, particularly with something as critical as brakes, manufacturers should IMO make their mainstream products as easy to adjust and as maintenance-free as possible. Twisting the adjuster and replacing the pads (shoes, blocks) from time to time should be all that's really needed to keep it functioning, because that's certainly all it's going to get. With some components, this seems to have been addressed, such as the near universal use of cassette type bearings in bottom brackets.
The 'disposable society' – I think 'replacement culture' might be a more accurate term – is a big topic and an interesting one. Well, it can be, anyway! Trying to stick more or less on topic, I don't think it's a direct explanation for lack of maintenance when it comes to things like brakes. At least, not in most cases; certainly there are people who will buy a new, better! shinier! set of brakes or derailleur or whatever rather than do some maintenance, but in most cases people aren't replacing, they're just not mending. I think the driver for a 'replacement culture' has always been there in people's desire for the better, the easier, the more advanced, but it's only in the last fifty years or so that we've become rich enough to really apply it in our daily lives. Arguably, what we think is better is often merely newer – again, trying to keep vaguely on topic, I'd nominate press fit bottom brackets as an example. Though I suppose even they have advantages in keeping manufacturing costs down.
reohn2 wrote:Bmblbzzz wrote:Yes, I agree. This is why I called it 'bad design'. Outside of specialist uses such as racing or audax (and often even within those, certainly audax), people are by and large not going to 'learn' how to maintain something. As you say, they "cover their eyes in fear or use it anyway until it breaks." This is why, particularly with something as critical as brakes, manufacturers should IMO make their mainstream products as easy to adjust and as maintenance-free as possible. Twisting the adjuster and replacing the pads (shoes, blocks) from time to time should be all that's really needed to keep it functioning, because that's certainly all it's going to get. With some components, this seems to have been addressed, such as the near universal use of cassette type bearings in bottom brackets.
But Avid BB7's couldn't be simpler once the short and not very steep learning curve has been climbed,they're a doddle to set up and maintain as are Spyre/Spykes FTM though as I posted up thread BB7's once set up don't need tools to adjust,or change pads FTM whilst by the road/trail side.
Brucey wrote:...Commuting bikes are used, abused, (not washed every ride!), parked carelessly, knocked about by other folk whilst parked... In these conditions disc brakes go wrong all the time. LBS scrap bins are (relative to the number in use) full of disc brake parts from bikes where the brakes stopped working properly for some stupid reason or other. By contrast drum brake failures are very rare.
cheers
Bmblbzzz wrote:So why do people not carry out that maintenance and adjustment? What are the reasons for it in your view?
yostumpy wrote:I run spyres with TRP drilled levers. Only had 1 failure, when the pad and the backing plate parted company, leaving me without a front brake, coming up to a junction at the bottom of a hill. Not the original pads tho.