TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

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reohn2
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby reohn2 » 9 Dec 2016, 2:26pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:I presume that adjusting the Spyre's pads with the allen key, you should use the adjusters on both sides, and probably try to use them reasonably equally?

Yes that's correct.
Access to the inside pad's adjuster could be tricky having to go through the spokes.

Yes but only slightly
Well, you could just take the wheel out, but it'd be more convenient if you didn't have to.

You could but it'd be far more tricky as you've nothing to adjust the pad to without the rotor in place.
I don't know but presume that the BB7s, having only one moving pad, don't have this.

BB7's have adjusters on both pads.

The trick is to get the rotor central in the caliper slot on initial set up by winding in both pads(Avid recommend 1/3 to 2/3 but I find 5/50 better)equally until they grip the rotor,with the caliper fixing bolts backed off enough to let the caliper rock on the convex concave washers.This stage squares up the mounting of the caliper.
Tighten the fixing bolts.
Back off both pads then adjust up equally so they're juusstt not rubbing the rotor,then if you like me like a little more free lever travel back off the outer pad a click or two,job done. :)
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reohn2
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby reohn2 » 9 Dec 2016, 2:29pm

Brucey wrote: ...........I don't remember offhand what Spyres do exactly .... anyone?

cheers

What do mean? :?
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 Dec 2016, 2:29pm

reohn2 wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:I presume that adjusting the Spyre's pads with the allen key, you should use the adjusters on both sides, and probably try to use them reasonably equally?

Yes that's correct.
Access to the inside pad's adjuster could be tricky having to go through the spokes.

Yes but only slightly
Well, you could just take the wheel out, but it'd be more convenient if you didn't have to.

You could but it'd be far more tricky as you've nothing to adjust the pad to without the rotor in place.
I don't know but presume that the BB7s, having only one moving pad, don't have this.

BB7's have adjusters on both pads.

The trick is to get the rotor central in the caliper slot on initial set up by winding in both pads(Avid recommend 1/3 to 2/3 but I find 5/50 better)equally until they grip the rotor,with the caliper fixing bolts backed off enough to let the caliper rock on the convex concave washers.This stage squares up the mounting of the caliper.
Tighten the fixing bolts.
Back off both pads then adjust up equally so they're juusstt not rubbing the rotor,then if you like me like a little more free lever travel back off the outer pad a click or two,job done. :)

Thanks. :)

Brucey
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Brucey » 9 Dec 2016, 2:40pm

reohn2 wrote:
Brucey wrote: ...........I don't remember offhand what Spyres do exactly .... anyone?

cheers

What do mean? :?


well, if you pull the wheel out (to simulate worn pads) and then work the arm on the caliper, does the arm

a) run out of travel and stop part way or
b) move all the way but cease to push the pads inwards past a certain point or
c) carry on pushing the pads inwards until the arm hits the barrel adjuster boss.

IIRC BB5 road calipers do a), Lyras do b) and Spykes do c).

However given the width constraints in the Spyre/Spyke caliper design, I doubt that Spyres do c), because if they did, the depth of the ramp mechanism and the total pad movement would both be much larger than could easily be contained within a mechanism of that size.

cheers
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Bez
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Bez » 9 Dec 2016, 2:55pm

I'm reasonably confident that Spyres do c) but I'd need to check—but the fact that they advise the use of the barrel to take up pad wear is compatible with them not being internally travel-limited. (Avid are very explicit about avoiding the use of barrel adjusters and produced disc-specific levers without them.) And weren't Spyres designed specifically as road brakes, with the Spykes being a later adaptation to MTB use?

Stevek76
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Stevek76 » 9 Dec 2016, 4:13pm

reohn2 wrote:
The inboard (fixed) caliper adjusters on BB7s can sometimes become very stiff, which can be an issue eg on very cold days or when you're lacking finger strength for some reason......


If you remove the inboard adjuster and put a little copper grease on the threads it helps,I also dribble a little GT85 on the outer edge inboard adjusting wheel after a wet ride or if the bike's washed.


The inboard adjusters on the road-SL version that came on one bike I have were insanely stiff, perhaps the black plastic is a bit less flexible than the red. After a while I went with a slightly alternative technique of taking the plastic knob off and bending the edges of it outwards somewhat so it didn't grip the indentations so firmly.

My main niggle with the BB7s is that the pads don't stay completely parallel throughout the motion range, I think this is largely because the spring and tabs are somewhat off centre so one end or the other isn't pushed back as much. That and the tri-align system can be a curse as well as a useful thing, largely depending on how wonky the disc caliper mounts are on the bike frame.

reohn2
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby reohn2 » 9 Dec 2016, 4:37pm

Stevek76 wrote:.....My main niggle with the BB7s is that the pads don't stay completely parallel throughout the motion range, I think this is largely because the spring and tabs are somewhat off centre so one end or the other isn't pushed back as much. That and the tri-align system can be a curse as well as a useful thing, largely depending on how wonky the disc caliper mounts are on the bike frame.


I can't say I've noticed that,and usually get the pads down to about 2mm overall thickness including backing before fitting new ones :) .
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gloomyandy
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby gloomyandy » 10 Dec 2016, 7:49am

I've had both BB7 and Spyres both work pretty well. Personally I've not found the standard pads in the Spyre to wear quickly and find that the adjustment from the barrel adjuster is fine when out on the road using the two pad adjusters now and again when back at home. I prefer the compact design of the Spyre as it has made using front panniers on low rider racks better then the BB7s. I found that with the BB7 the pannier was resting on the adjuster knob and being held away from the rack, with the Spyres I don't have that problem.

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Gattonero
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Gattonero » 11 Dec 2016, 1:53pm

Brucey wrote:...
Needless to say either thing can be flippin' dangerous (no brakes...) but neither thing happens if you use the pad adjusters like you should do.

I don't remember offhand what Spyres do exactly .... anyone?

cheers


IIRC the 1st gen. of Spyres was recalled because they would lock past the complete movement of the arm, which would happen well before the arm would reach the caliper body.
Now they won't lock but simply not push further.
Is not much different from a rim brake where the pads are so worn that the lever would touch the bars, albeit on a disk brake the pads are not immediately visible, so people may forget about the wear.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Gattonero
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Gattonero » 11 Dec 2016, 1:57pm

Stevek76 wrote:...
My main niggle with the BB7s is that the pads don't stay completely parallel throughout the motion range, I think this is largely because the spring and tabs are somewhat off centre so one end or the other isn't pushed back as much. That and the tri-align system can be a curse as well as a useful thing, largely depending on how wonky the disc caliper mounts are on the bike frame.


That pad spring is indeed annoying, as does not push the pad in its whole height. This makes often for rubbing noise, as the caliper is centered but the pads are not parallel in their rest position.
Nothing to be really afraid for, as the rubbing would probably take 1w (!) out of the cyclist's effort, it's more about the noise. And of course, the one that is new to disk brakes, will be irritated by this.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Brucey
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Brucey » 11 Dec 2016, 2:05pm

Gattonero wrote: IIRC the 1st gen. of Spyres was recalled because they would lock past the complete movement of the arm, which would happen well before the arm would reach the caliper body.....Now they won't lock but simply not push further.
.....Is not much different from a rim brake where the pads are so worn that the lever would touch the bars, albeit on a disk brake the pads are not immediately visible, so people may forget about the wear.


so it was type b) behaviour but now it is type a)....

Having used BB5 road calipers, I would say that for those who use the barrel adjusters to compensate for pad wear, type a) behaviour (-although arguably an improvement over type b)...) is potentially extremely dangerous.

Whilst it is very obvious if (say) your brake levers are about to hit the handlebar, it is not at all obvious that the brake arm on a disc caliper ought to 'stop half-way' and leave you with no brakes.

cheers
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Gattonero
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Gattonero » 11 Dec 2016, 2:12pm

Brucey wrote:
Gattonero wrote: IIRC the 1st gen. of Spyres was recalled because they would lock past the complete movement of the arm, which would happen well before the arm would reach the caliper body.....Now they won't lock but simply not push further.
.....Is not much different from a rim brake where the pads are so worn that the lever would touch the bars, albeit on a disk brake the pads are not immediately visible, so people may forget about the wear.


so it was type b) behaviour but now it is type a)....

Having used BB5 road calipers, I would say that for those who use the barrel adjusters to compensate for pad wear, type a) behaviour (-although arguably an improvement over type b)...) is potentially extremely dangerous.

Whilst it is very obvious if (say) your brake levers are about to hit the handlebar, it is not at all obvious that the brake arm on a disc caliper ought to 'stop half-way' and leave you with no brakes.

cheers


I said "(the calipers) do not push further" so the levers may touch the bars in those conditions too.
This does not happen overnight, the brake lever action goes longer and longer until there is no more braking power. Perhaps not very intuitive, but I think is impossible to design something that would prevent a problem caused by the lack of common sense: if the brakes are becoming less and less powerful, whether they are Avid or Trp or Shimano, stop riding and inspect :idea:
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Brucey
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Brucey » 11 Dec 2016, 2:32pm

possibly you misunderstand the nature of the problem; regardless of what the instructions might say, if you give them one, some folk will adjust the brakes using the barrel adjuster only as the pads wear, [or they will slide the cable through the pinch bolt and retighten it]. If you do this, the brake arm on the caliper gets to what looks about half-stroke (and is half-stroke on the MTB versions of most of these brakes) well before the pads are worn out.

However on many road calipers, the brake arm won't usefully go past half-way; it just stops dead (type a)) or goes 'click' (type b)), either way leaving you with no brakes. It is in no way obvious that this might happen or indeed that it is happening, until it does.... In fact the arm will often stop/fail shortly after the point at which the caliper MA is the highest.

I can think of very many ways that the design of such things could be improved.

cheers
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Dec 2016, 4:06pm

It was mentioned upthread that the supposed advantage of dual-piston over single-piston calipers is to avoid the very slight bending of the rotor that occurs with single-piston designs, and that this bending is in fact so slight as to not be a problem. That might be the case but I've never heard it mentioned before. The advantage I have heard claimed for them is that they avoid the slight rubbing that occurs constantly with single-piston designs. The drag from this is probably so small as to be barely measurable let alone noticeable, but the noise certainly is noticeable.

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Gattonero
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Re: TRP Spyre/Spyre SLC

Postby Gattonero » 11 Dec 2016, 4:58pm

Brucey wrote:possibly you misunderstand the nature of the problem; regardless of what the instructions might say, ...


Excuse me, when have I said this? :?:
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...