My winter bike is a single speed.
1/8 chain, steel freewheel cog and alloy chainset ring, 6061 T6.
I'm aware that the chainring is going to wear faster than the steel freewheel cog but what chain tension / vertical chain movement will give the optimum wear pattern ?
I have the facility to produce a 2024 T6 chainring if that would be a better bet ?
Anyone with any experience of wear rates with 2024 or 6061 alloy chainrings.
Chain tension on single speed bikes
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landsurfer
- Posts: 5327
- Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Chain tension on single speed bikes
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
FWIW if you run with no slack in the chain it will knock the transmission out pretty quickly. On a singlespeed bike with a freewheel about 1" of vertical chain slack is fine. As the chain wears, it becomes an increasingly bad idea to take all the slack out of the chain because all it will do is make the transmission run rough.
2024 will be longer lasting than 6061 but if the chain is allowed to wear too much this will quickly knock out any chainring. If you are running a ~3:1 chainring to sprocket ratio you may find that the freewheel sprocket wears as fast or faster than the chainring.
If you want a hard-wearing chainring and weight is not an issue, there are such things as stainless steel chainrings (eg Surly ones). These last really well.
Since 1/8" chains are not expensive, it probably makes sense to change the chain before it has the chance to wear everything else out.
cheers
2024 will be longer lasting than 6061 but if the chain is allowed to wear too much this will quickly knock out any chainring. If you are running a ~3:1 chainring to sprocket ratio you may find that the freewheel sprocket wears as fast or faster than the chainring.
If you want a hard-wearing chainring and weight is not an issue, there are such things as stainless steel chainrings (eg Surly ones). These last really well.
Since 1/8" chains are not expensive, it probably makes sense to change the chain before it has the chance to wear everything else out.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
Hi,
Apart from corrosion resistance, any advantage in using stainless over steel, considering that in industry stainless is only used for corrosion resitance
Apart from corrosion resistance, any advantage in using stainless over steel, considering that in industry stainless is only used for corrosion resitance
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
just like other steels, they vary; some stainless steel grades are harder, tougher, and more corrosion resistant than others. The corrosion resistance may be important here; winter riding eats aluminium chainrings faster than normal so it may be an combined/erosion process (combined wear and corrosion) once there is road salt in the mix.
The surly chainrings are made from 304 stainless, which is a good deal harder and tougher than the material in most Aluminium chainrings. I think they last a lot longer than most aluminium chainrings do. However 304 isn't the hardest stainless steel there is; arguably there are other stainless steels (eg like those used for brake discs) that might work as well or better in chainring applications, even if they might occasionally start to show rusty blemishes.
It is a bit of a shame that the surly rings are not full 1/8" width though; they will work fine with 1/8" chain, but wider would be better for durability.
cheers
The surly chainrings are made from 304 stainless, which is a good deal harder and tougher than the material in most Aluminium chainrings. I think they last a lot longer than most aluminium chainrings do. However 304 isn't the hardest stainless steel there is; arguably there are other stainless steels (eg like those used for brake discs) that might work as well or better in chainring applications, even if they might occasionally start to show rusty blemishes.
It is a bit of a shame that the surly rings are not full 1/8" width though; they will work fine with 1/8" chain, but wider would be better for durability.
cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
landsurfer wrote:My winter bike is a single speed.
1/8 chain, steel freewheel cog and alloy chainset ring, 6061 T6.
I'm aware that the chainring is going to wear faster than the steel freewheel cog but what chain tension / vertical chain movement will give the optimum wear pattern ?
I have the facility to produce a 2024 T6 chainring if that would be a better bet ?
Anyone with any experience of wear rates with 2024 or 6061 alloy chainrings.
FWIW, I've found most freewheels on the market a bit of hit and miss.
Even the Shimano ones are not the quality that used to be, despite the price more than doubled in 10 years.
What you get is "knocking" sound while riding, and a "tight-spot" that becomes very noticeable.
Before the chainring, I'd be worried of the freewheel, finding a decent quality one is not easy nowadays
I don't like when the chain needs to have more than 1.5cm of vertical play.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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Bigdummysteve
- Posts: 353
- Joined: 24 May 2015, 9:29am
- Location: Oxfordshire
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
Woolftooth make a narrow/wide stainless ring in 400 stainless
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/prod ... chainrings
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/prod ... chainrings
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
No need for a narrow-wide ring on a proper s/sp setup.
Btw, I've once seen a Surly ring being very noisy, I don't think that Stainless is a good choice as far as quietness. Unless one is planning to do an awful lot of miles.
Btw, I've once seen a Surly ring being very noisy, I don't think that Stainless is a good choice as far as quietness. Unless one is planning to do an awful lot of miles.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
Gattonero wrote:FWIW, I've found most freewheels on the market a bit of hit and miss.
Even the Shimano ones are not the quality that used to be, despite the price more than doubled in 10 years.
What you get is "knocking" sound while riding, and a "tight-spot" that becomes very noticeable.
Before the chainring, I'd be worried of the freewheel, finding a decent quality one is not easy nowadays
I don't like when the chain needs to have more than 1.5cm of vertical play.
Try White Industries freewheels: at around £75 they seem eyewateringly expensive but the bearings are easily swapped (£10) and they run longer and smoother than the Shimano ones - easily they outlast by 3-5x before a bearing swap. I have just run one for 5 years of all-year MTB riding before a rebuild.
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
That is what I run, altogether with Izumi silver chain and RF or Gebhardt chainrings.
Cannot say to be happy of the price for the W.I. replacement sprocket ring, tho. It costs almost as the complete freewheel...
Cannot say to be happy of the price for the W.I. replacement sprocket ring, tho. It costs almost as the complete freewheel...
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
-
landsurfer
- Posts: 5327
- Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
Are we talking about the same type of freewheel ?
Mine is a screw on, single speed type, not a modified cassette freewheel.
Mine is a screw on, single speed type, not a modified cassette freewheel.
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
you can pay a small fortune for a singlespeed freewheel if you want to. However most folk opt for a relatively cheap one, despite the fact that they can be a bit variable in quality.
The main problems I find with basic SS freewheels (up to and including shimano ones) are that
a) they are often not correctly adjusted from new
b) they often 'settle' in the bearings (i.e. develop more slack) in the first few miles of use
c) they are not at all well sealed, so need very regular attention, lubrication-wise.
In addition to the above in some makes
d) the pawl spring can be badly set so that one day, it will come adrift on its mountings and cause the freewheel to fail by jamming
e) the ratchet and pawls are set so that the engagement is via one pawl only. This gives a minimal backlash, but Is weaker than it needs to be and will make for noisy operation if there is any slack in the bearings.
f) some freewheels have the lockring set on the LH side of the freewheel body, which means that the freewheel needs to be removed before it can be overhauled/adjusted.
g) some freewheels have no extractor dogs in the body; this means that the freewheel has to be disassembled before the centre can be unscrewed.
I view it as being essential to be able to re-shim a singlespeed freewheel if you want to get the best out of it. The reason for this is that the centre sees a reaction load (and consequent movement) if there is only one pawl engaged. This load/movement wears the centre to an oval shape and this can make for poor running. The wear that causes this is very greatly accelerated if there is any slack in the freewheel bearings.
In contrast to others, I find that even rather modest singlespeed freewheels can give good service, provided they are maintained and overhauled as necessary. Typically the freewheel will be lubricated (e.g. using aerosol semi-fluid grease) when new and used for about a hundred miles. Then it will be stripped and re-shimmed. It is simply a case of unscrewing the lockring (which is on a LH thread) using a hammer and punch, then adjusting the shim stack thickness beneath the lockring. If there are not enough thin shims, I'll cut some more from suitable material (beer can....
) using scissors.
If the spring looks dodgy, I'll rework that so that it isn't going to cause trouble down the line.
If this process is adhered to, even a relatively inexpensive freewheel will then last OK. If it ever needs adjusting again (before the sprocket part wears out) it'll almost certainly be because the water got inside it and wasn't then displaced with a shot of lube. Note that you can re-shim a new freewheel, but it is often a waste of time; if it has a chromed finish (say) this will wear off the bearing surfaces in the first few hundred miles and the bearing will slacken anyway.
cheers
The main problems I find with basic SS freewheels (up to and including shimano ones) are that
a) they are often not correctly adjusted from new
b) they often 'settle' in the bearings (i.e. develop more slack) in the first few miles of use
c) they are not at all well sealed, so need very regular attention, lubrication-wise.
In addition to the above in some makes
d) the pawl spring can be badly set so that one day, it will come adrift on its mountings and cause the freewheel to fail by jamming
e) the ratchet and pawls are set so that the engagement is via one pawl only. This gives a minimal backlash, but Is weaker than it needs to be and will make for noisy operation if there is any slack in the bearings.
f) some freewheels have the lockring set on the LH side of the freewheel body, which means that the freewheel needs to be removed before it can be overhauled/adjusted.
g) some freewheels have no extractor dogs in the body; this means that the freewheel has to be disassembled before the centre can be unscrewed.
I view it as being essential to be able to re-shim a singlespeed freewheel if you want to get the best out of it. The reason for this is that the centre sees a reaction load (and consequent movement) if there is only one pawl engaged. This load/movement wears the centre to an oval shape and this can make for poor running. The wear that causes this is very greatly accelerated if there is any slack in the freewheel bearings.
In contrast to others, I find that even rather modest singlespeed freewheels can give good service, provided they are maintained and overhauled as necessary. Typically the freewheel will be lubricated (e.g. using aerosol semi-fluid grease) when new and used for about a hundred miles. Then it will be stripped and re-shimmed. It is simply a case of unscrewing the lockring (which is on a LH thread) using a hammer and punch, then adjusting the shim stack thickness beneath the lockring. If there are not enough thin shims, I'll cut some more from suitable material (beer can....
) using scissors.If the spring looks dodgy, I'll rework that so that it isn't going to cause trouble down the line.
If this process is adhered to, even a relatively inexpensive freewheel will then last OK. If it ever needs adjusting again (before the sprocket part wears out) it'll almost certainly be because the water got inside it and wasn't then displaced with a shot of lube. Note that you can re-shim a new freewheel, but it is often a waste of time; if it has a chromed finish (say) this will wear off the bearing surfaces in the first few hundred miles and the bearing will slacken anyway.
cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
I have found Thorn single speed 7075 T6 chainrings to be very durable, especially as they are fully reversible: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... ing-black/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... nch-black/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... nch-black/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... nch-black/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... nch-black/
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
landsurfer wrote:Are we talking about the same type of freewheel ?
Mine is a screw on, single speed type, not a modified cassette freewheel.
Yes, the W.I. single freewheel has the outer sprocket ring replaceable.
In theory, this would make a replacement cost-effective, as the whole inner body, pawls and bearing are reused/serviced. But IIRC the price for the 16t outer sprocket ring was over £50
It's a good freewheel tho, I use to run Shimanos until the quality fell noticeably, I couldn't get rid of the "knocking" noise and frankly I couldn't be bothered to spend time re-shimming it inside, so I just kept on riding with the "knock knock" that only I seemed to hear and waited until was worn to get rid of it.
10yrs ago the Shimanos were good, all it would need was a flush+oil every few months, easy to do in a vice with the freewheel screwed onto an old hub used as "jig"
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
-
breakwellmz
- Posts: 1982
- Joined: 8 May 2012, 9:33pm
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
Aren`t a number of you making this all very over complicated and potentially very expensive, and for someone viewing this topic with a view to trying out single speed for the first time, very off putting i would have thought. 
Re: Chain tension on single speed bikes
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Apart from corrosion resistance, any advantage in using stainless over steel, considering that in industry stainless is only used for corrosion resitance
Yes, not only very low wear rate, but noticeably easier to clean than an aluminium one in my experience.
I run a Surly stainless chainring on a hub geared bike which used to go off road too, wish I could get a 1/8" ring for my fixed gear bike too.
Haven't noticed any more noise in the transmission than with an Al chainring either.