Campag Ergo Wear

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Gattonero
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 7:39am

I'd check for the causes of premature wear.
All the times I've seen those shifters to wear prematurely, there were one or more of those problems:

-bike used for commuting by a rider that shifts every few seconds (=thousands of shifts per each journey :shock: )
-incorrect cable routing that gives incorrect bends and increases friction in the gear wires (the shifting lever becomes somewhat stiff to move)
-on a similar note, incorrect adjust/maintenance of the RD that would need to increase the force applied to it for completing the shifting
-the rider's habit of staying almost all the time by the hoods gripping them with extreme force so that the gear housing is actually compressed :shock: (this is not the case, but I've seen many times the rubber hoods been completely dislodged) and create friction in the gear wire
-incorrect return of the brake lever blade, this causes the shift lever to laterally stop against it, resulting in the shift button being almost (if not all) jammed and requiring excessive force to press it, this does cause a lot of wear on the "tooth" that is behind the shift button.

As much as I do like the way those shifters work when in best conditions, as they have a nice light action and are very easy to setup; I too do not agree with the materials they are made.
The use of resin can cause premature wear in some cases, and although the new ones have the wearing parts noticeably bigger they're still subject to wear.
To get 4 years out of it, is not great, I've even seen people wearing them out in two years, and I'll let you imagine how the bike was kept :?

If there weren't the problems that are out there, Campagnolo should make the two wearing parts available as spare. The ratchet ring is pretty easy to replace, the shift-button/tooth needs to be prised out but it's not too difficult either.
The thing is, I can't see many shops out there been able to bother about it, as always is a "time vs money" situation where it's easier to just fit a pre-assembled shifter body kit.
It's a waste of resources, I agree with that, but seriously how many people out there can and will perform a repair?
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Nigel
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Nigel » 7 Aug 2017, 1:38pm

I've had circa-2006 Campag Ergo shifters repaired by Downland Cycles in Kent - I have them on two bikes. Decent price, good turn-around by mail-order. In both cases, there was a cracked internal component which was the cause of poor shifting, not just the "G" spring.


- Nigel

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Gattonero
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 1:53pm

Nigel wrote:I've had circa-2006 Campag Ergo shifters repaired by Downland Cycles in Kent - I have them on two bikes. Decent price, good turn-around by mail-order. In both cases, there was a cracked internal component which was the cause of poor shifting, not just the "G" spring.


- Nigel


Depending on the model and year, the Campagnolo shifters can be repaired by replacing separate parts only, or need a complete replacement body pre-assembled with the internals.
The ones as per the OP are the latter, no separate spares are available.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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LinusR
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby LinusR » 7 Aug 2017, 2:04pm

Thanks for your replies Brucey and Gattonero.

I definitely wouldn't bother to do is just get another one like the last one, not if you are paying full whack for it. They really are pretty crappy.


That seems to be the consensus.

I may as well take a chance and get an Ultrashift body and install it myself. I think my Veloce brake lever should fit this http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/p/105515/Campagnolo-Centaur-10v-Right-Hand-Lever-Body-EC-CE200

However, according to this http://www.campagservice.co.uk/ergo.htm I have to get a different lever hood, but I presume my existing brake lever will fit? Is this correct?

As regards any frequent use of the button shift lever or incorrect use of it, I doubt that applies. I've kept the cabling in good condition and even replaced inners and outers and I'm sure I've been pressing the lever positively all the way ([edit] - OK I could be wrong about this, but I apprenticed for four years as an engineer, fitting, turning, toolmaker and maintenance). My touring/winter bike had a lot more use with noticeable wear on the hoods but the lever so far has operated ok for more than five years of quite heavy use.

I have Tiagra 4700 levers on my cyclocross bike (which I use for day rides off-road) and I'm happy to use Shimano, but of course Tiagra is more expensive than Veloce. I also wore out two sets of springs in the old Veloce ergos 9 speed with the g-springs, but over 10 years' use or more and a lot more regular use than I give the bike now. I replaced and rebuilt the first time. When the second pair of springs failed I switched to 10 speed Veloce.

I'll try an Ultrashift body unless anyone's got a better idea.

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Gattonero
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Gattonero » 7 Aug 2017, 4:09pm

You will need a different rubber hood only if you go for the "ultrashift" type of body, though you can simply enlarge the cutaway of your existing ones (it really is the only difference).
The shifters you have now are "powershift" and are the non-serviceable ones, the exact replacement is EC-CE300, but if you can find the CE200 they fit in the same way and the have the different internals (multiple downshift) which is more durable.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Keezx
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Keezx » 7 Aug 2017, 5:22pm

LinusR wrote:CUT
Is an Ultrashift body and its internal parts more durable? Will I get a longer life out of it? I know you can shift multiple cogs with Ultrahift but I don't really care about that. I want it to last longer than a 10 speed cassette.

Any advice appreciated.


The problem with the latest model Ergopowers is that only the Record and Chorus models have good internals , and they're 11 speed.....
That's why I exclusively model 2 Ergo's < 2007, the never give me any trouble.

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LinusR
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby LinusR » 7 Aug 2017, 7:15pm

Gattonero wrote:if you can find the CE200 they fit in the same way and the have the different internals (multiple downshift) which is more durable.


"more durable" is what I wanted to hear. Thanks everyone for the help here. I've ordered the part (EC-CE200 £59.99) and it will get to me later in the week. I'll let you know how I get on.

Brucey
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Brucey » 7 Aug 2017, 8:05pm

LinusR wrote: ...."more durable" is what I wanted to hear....


they could hardly be worse....? :wink: but if you look at the spare parts diagram for this shifter arrangement the whole mechanism is more sophisticated. Shame you still can't get more small parts individually though.

I have not done this swap myself so I don't know if there are any major wrinkles or not; so the best of luck with it!

BTW re the pre 2007 ergos; apart from the G springs and the index wheel (which do eventually wear out ) the other part that occasionally breaks is the G-spring carrier. If campag stop supplying these parts I shall be very upset indeed.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Mick F » 8 Aug 2017, 6:53am

Brucey wrote:BTW re the pre 2007 ergos; apart from the G springs and the index wheel (which do eventually wear out ) the other part that occasionally breaks is the G-spring carrier. If campag stop supplying these parts I shall be very upset indeed.
Go back up-thread, and you'll find that they already have.

Mercian can't supply the ratchets that have worn in mine, and all they can offer is a complete new body. New G springs have sorted me out, but in the fulness of time, my 2006 Chorus Ergos are scrap.

It's not the end of the world though.
Just fit the DT levers.
Mick F. Cornwall

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LinusR
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby LinusR » 9 Aug 2017, 4:58pm

60 quid later and an hour of fiddling I finally got the old Powershift lever body out and replaced it with the new ultrashift lever body.

Image

By far the most difficult part was removing the brake lever from the old body. Nothing like as easy as it looks in Campag's instruction video. You have to really hit the pin with a lot of force. I had to put it on an old chair and really whack it with a brass punch and a plastic mallet to get it out. It's now back on the bike. I had to cut a bigger slot in the hood to allow for the bigger movement of the thumb shifter (see pic above). Gear and brake cables attached and ready for handlebar tape and fine tuning on a test ride tomorrow.

I'm not used to so much intricate bike mechanics anymore. Worse eyesight and weaker hands. At 55 I'm like an old man.

Brucey
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Brucey » 9 Aug 2017, 5:10pm

nice work!

I'm a few years behind you but time takes no prisoners....my arms soon won't be long enough for me to focus on stuff I'm holding properly.... :( ...

cheers
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Keezx
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Keezx » 9 Aug 2017, 8:13pm

Wonder where my "point of return "is, 64 now and still getting better.....(in wrenching) and not slower than 7 years ago.

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Mick F
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Mick F » 10 Aug 2017, 8:34am

The pins come out relatively easily, but you need the knack.

It's easier with the Ergo off the bike of course. Lie it on its side over a solid base of something with a recess. Slightly open bench vice is good, but you need to protect the Ergo from the jaws - thick cloths or cardboard works well.

Hit the pin firmly and briskly using a short narrow punch. I use a nail with the pointed tip filed off and hit it with a light hammer.

It can be done when on the bike, but you need three hands with one of them holding a heavy lump of something to absorb the blows. It can be done with two hands, but you need to be quite dextrous.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby Brucey » 10 Aug 2017, 10:18am

Mick F wrote:
Brucey wrote:BTW re the pre 2007 ergos; apart from the G springs and the index wheel (which do eventually wear out ) the other part that occasionally breaks is the G-spring carrier. If campag stop supplying these parts I shall be very upset indeed.
Go back up-thread, and you'll find that they already have.

Mercian can't supply the ratchets that have worn in mine, and all they can offer is a complete new body. New G springs have sorted me out, but in the fulness of time, my 2006 Chorus Ergos are scrap.....


there's quite a few parts here for pre 2008 ergos;
https://branfordbike.com/new-products
but not as many as there used to be and they don't have the 10s index wheel either. I wonder if this part will become available again if there is enough demand for it?

Mind you everything (and everyone....) is, in the fullness of time, scrap, isn't it...?

cheers
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LinusR
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Re: Campag Ergo Wear

Postby LinusR » 10 Aug 2017, 8:49pm

Just a quick update on the replacement body for my Ergo lever.

I took the bike out for a 70k ride today and the new Ultrashift worked perfectly. Sixty quid on the part well spent. We'll see how long it lasts. Thanks again for everyone's help.