Disc brake performance

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by The utility cyclist »

TYKE wrote:TISH TOSH PISH POSH !!

Discs are the way ahead. As technology improves they have become lighter, more efficient and are a doddle to service and set up. Anyone with an ounce of spannering experience can sort them out ....

And as for not knowing when your pads wear out ??? Lazy poor maintenance !! Do you wait until your cars brakes fail or the light comes on to put a new set of pads in ???

The whinging pros who claim they have been burned or had their shoes cut through by a rotor are talking cobblers ....and If disc brakes are so terrible then why are ALL the main manufactures making bikes with discs ???hmmmm??

Or should we go back to cable operated cantilevers with rubber brake blocks and do away with all " this new fangled technology"??


But if the Luddites prefer old tech rim
brakes then so be it - but get off the case of those who prefer improved stopping power

Like the many other people who ride bikes wearing helmets they have an irrational fear, a misunderstanding of risk, that same fear is being felt in the pro ranks regarding discs. Whinging pros you say, maybe if you've had your foot/shoe cut, maybe if you've had a big gouge out of your leg and wonder what was recently added to some bikes that might cause it, you know that big steel thing that projects from the front and rear of the bike it would give you very good reason to think it was that item that was the cause.
Why are manufacturers making bikes with discs, well it's their job to sell things to make profit, pure and simple.

Performance advantage, not really. you might save a couple of seconds on approach to braking points on some of the steeper high speed stuff in the wet but any gain there is still defined by tyre traction and the ability of the rider to read the terrain, to know their limits in being able to get around a corner without the tyres letting go, discs won't aid that.
Riders are possibly more likely to crash as they'll think they can brake later and as I said before it's then all down to traction of the tyre and the riders ability. They can't make you go round corners quicker as many idiotic reviewers state, that's just BS.

Then we come to aero losses, we already know that the forks particularly are having to be beefed up to take the forces that discs but the aero losses add up to a significant amount, 4-8 watts, more if there's side winds, at the top end that's a difference not to be sniffed at at that level.

For the non racer they are even less needed and just dumb down cycling, just as discs/ABS/traction control etc on cars have, people now drive faster because they they can brake better/quicker then again find it's tyre traction and their ability to think/understand the hazard that is much more important.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by The utility cyclist »

reohn2 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Discs are simply not needed,

That depends
people need to learn to brake properly, learn to understand their surroundings/hazards, need to understand how much traction their tyres have.

What makes you think anyone using disc brakes doesn't already?
Until tyres are able to have vastly more grip than current tech disc brakes are a technology step that are for the lazy, those that elect not to learn, the simple minded and frankly dangerous.

Frankly that is utter bunkum.

Safety, don't make me laugh, those choosing discs will think they can brake later then when it comes down to it find out that the brakes are not the be all by any stretch.

Who told you that?
Modulation, as above, learn to brake properly.

As above,bunkum,you simply don't know what you're talking about.

They make bikes look ugly in any case.

All in the eye of the beholder and is a non statement,only a personal POV.

you haven't disproved anything i've said
Go do some reading and understand what it all means.
reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

Boring_Username wrote:My only experience of disc brakes is of my son's mountain bikes, a couple of which are fairly expensive. I don't know if this is just the way they are set up, but they do seem to "snatch", i.e. instantly go hard on, with very little modulation. Not something I would want on tarmac. Is this a common thing?

Are they Hydros?
Cable operated BB7's have great modulation :)
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foxyrider
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by foxyrider »

scottg wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:Aren't rim brakes a form of disc brake, using very large rotors?


Yes, which is why they are rubbish, just like disc brakes.
Hydraulic spoon brakes are the next big thing in cycling.
The intended brake for Schwalbe Marathons, otherwise why
are they soooooo thick ?


Look out for those STB's!


Lol
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Boring_Username
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by Boring_Username »

reohn2 wrote:
Boring_Username wrote:My only experience of disc brakes is of my son's mountain bikes, a couple of which are fairly expensive. I don't know if this is just the way they are set up, but they do seem to "snatch", i.e. instantly go hard on, with very little modulation. Not something I would want on tarmac. Is this a common thing?

Are they Hydros?
Cable operated BB7's have great modulation :)


Yes they are hydros. Are road bike discs cable?
reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

The utility cyclist wrote:you haven't disproved anything i've said

I've disproved everything you've said the reason 7+ years of riding Discs and 55 years of rim brakes :)
Go do some reading and understand what it all means.

I don't disprove your statements by reading about it,I ride them and make my own judgements by comparing discs with rim brakes.

So what's your disc brake experience?
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reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

Boring_Username wrote:Yes they are hydros. Are road bike discs cable?


I've never ridden hydros.
Road Disc brakes can be either.
I prefer BB7 cable discs,simple to set up,powerful enough to lock wheels,and great modulation :D
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reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

foxyrider wrote:
Look out for those STB's!


Lol


If they're good enough for Mr Shimano,they're good enough for me! :mrgreen:
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gloomyandy
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by gloomyandy »

I have bikes with both rim and disc brakes. Both work fine, I do think that discs have some advantages which have not been mentioned so far...
* Swapping wheels is much easier, no having to release the brakes to get an inflated tyre through them, no having to reset the brakes for different rim widths. I frequently swap between a couple of wheel sets on my touring/winter bike and it is much less hassle with discs.
* For road bikes there are advantages if you use carbon rims, no danger of damaging the rim on long descents, no having to switch pads if you have say a set of aluminium rimmed training wheels and carbon best/race wheels.
* Much easier to fit mudguards to a typical road bike (which does not have V brakes), no having to use flimsy guards or odd ball solutions that try to avoid the tight area under a typical caliper brake on most "road/race bikes", which is what many "keen" cyclists buy. It is noticeable that in my club the bikes with the best mudguard setups are usually fitted with disc brakes.

Personally I find it much quicker to swap a set of disc pads then do the same on either V or caliper brakes. I can lock up wheels happily with both types and find the feel and modulation of trp spyres fine (with SRAM road levers). I've not met many folks that have used both that have bad things to say about discs (but quiet a few that have never used them that seem to have strong opinions!).
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meic
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by meic »

I think with the wheel changeovers and the mudguard fitting it will depend more on the individual bike and wheels involved than on whether they are rim or disc brakes.
Yma o Hyd
reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

meic wrote:I think with the wheel changeovers and the mudguard fitting it will depend more on the individual bike and wheels involved than on whether they are rim or disc brakes.

With wheel changovers if narrow tyres are used there's not a problem with rim brakes,but wide tyres 32> it can be difficult getting V's or DP pads to open out wide enough.

Disc brake front m/guard fitting,front caliper side stays can be a problem on some bikes,needing to space off the the stay around the caliper.
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Boring_Username
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by Boring_Username »

Do the pros and cons of disc brakes alter much if we are considering a fixed wheel bike?
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ChrisOntLancs
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by ChrisOntLancs »

i get that rim brakes are fine if you take the required effort, and that's the problem, discs require nowhere near as much effort. you can ride on gravel with slick tires if you make enough effort, you know.. and you may or may not see cyclists do this.

the language of the cycling press isn't helpful sometimes. whenever new technology comes about everybody is claiming it will make the old stuff obsolete. *any mountain bike publication or show* once asked if 26 inch wheels are dead, and i didn't have to watch the video because i'm a cyclist and when i'm cycling i see a lot of 26 inch wheels.

i reckon that people wouldn't feel so burned, had they not felt such pressure to 'keep up', before making a thread like this and realising that actually, rim brakes are perfectly fine, and you're not some sort of fossil if you have them on your bike.

i'd love to compare marketing in the world of cycling to marketing in the world of any instrument associated with rock and pop unless another more switched on muso beats me to it in a different thread.
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meic
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by meic »

reohn2 wrote:
meic wrote:I think with the wheel changeovers and the mudguard fitting it will depend more on the individual bike and wheels involved than on whether they are rim or disc brakes.

With wheel changovers if narrow tyres are used there's not a problem with rim brakes,but wide tyres 32> it can be difficult getting V's or DP pads to open out wide enough.

Disc brake front m/guard fitting,front caliper side stays can be a problem on some bikes,needing to space off the the stay around the caliper.


Just as it can be a problem getting the disks on wheels to be in exactly the same position to avoid having to readjust the pad positions.
discs require nowhere near as much effort

Not my experience, Double pivot calipers are by far the easiest brake to live with when it comes to doing the spannering.
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reohn2
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Re: Disc brake performance

Post by reohn2 »

meic wrote:Just as it can be a problem getting the disks on wheels to be in exactly the same position to avoid having to readjust the pad positions.

Agreed,though on calipers with inner and outer adjusters such as BB7's it's usually just a matter of a couple of clicks on them to center the pads.
discs require nowhere near as much effort

Is that frrom my post?
Not my experience, Double pivot calipers are by far the easiest brake to live with when it comes to doing the spannering.

DP's are easy to work with on <28mm tyres,but 32mm> they're a problem.
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