Snapped bars

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
cycle tramp
Posts: 1069
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Snapped bars

Postby cycle tramp » 9 Apr 2017, 9:48pm

Gattonero wrote:No idea who Eddie Mercx is? Well, ok... put it this way, no other cyclist has won so many road races and he was so talented that would excell in grand tours, track racing, classic one-day races, hour record, and more.
Like may other in that day, he would keep the weight of his bike as low as possible. Given that materials and technologies weren't as good as today, weight reduction was done by drilling and reducing the parts. For his hour-record he had a special bike that, like pretty much all the others in that day, was made out of steel, and IIRC weighted less than 6kg.

What this has to do with touring?
The less weight you carry, the less effort you need -or the faster you go-, which means you arrive at the pub earlier and less tired 8)
I don't see why should I cycle on a bike that weights nearly 20kgs when I can cycle with one that weights just over 10kgs. We're not splitting hairs and talking of a handful of grams here, when you have a bike that is at least 5kgs lighter, the difference is obvious.

I view cycling as a mass transit solution for minor distances, as well as a useful piece of touring equipment.. Weigh therefore is not all important..how do you view cycling?


I view cycling on a 360º view, a bicycle can have many different tasks to do on different roads and different circumstances.
That's why I have mountain bikes, a folding bike, road bikes, and a light-touring bike. Had track bikes and BMx too. I don't really believe in "one does all", when you want the best, you need a dedicated tool :)


In which case may I ask you to consider Mr Francois Faire who in 1930 smashed the existing speed records for both the kilometre and mile, on a machine which was heavier but with much more improved aerodynamics.
Sadly, it is not how heavy your bicycle weighs which determines its speed, but rather the aerodynamics. To go twice as fast you need 8 times the power. A fact not lost on me, when I was riding my upwrong, and my brother was on his recumbent (which was heavier than my own bike).
The weight of any bicycle only comes into affect when accelerating, breaking, ascending or descending. All aerodynamics being equal, on level ground with only one stop and start, with two equally matched riders, one riding a heavier bike and one a lighter bike will actually see very little time difference.
The weight of a bicycle is purely relative, if I had been training on a bicycle weighing 30 KGS and ride a bicycle weighing 20 KGS, then I would notice a difference, similarly if I was training on a bicycle which weighed 10 KGS and then moved to a bicycle weighing 20kgs. The weight of the bicycle has not changed.

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 5251
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Snapped bars

Postby foxyrider » 9 Apr 2017, 9:57pm

cycle tramp wrote:
Gattonero wrote:I'll never get tired of saying this: people does not know -or deliberately forgets about it- that the steel bike used by Eddie Mercx for his hour record attempt, was so light that is was believed it could break during the attempt, and Ernesto Colnago himself was on the track with an identical spare bike.


Sorry, no idea who this fellow is. Clearly though, the fact that you do, does indicate that we may see cycling from two different aspects... I view cycling as a mass transit solution for minor distances, as well as a useful piece of touring equipment.. Weigh therefore is not all important..how do you view cycling?


Think maybe an opening of eyes may be useful! Eddy survived his hour attempt, I saw him swigging a beer in Austria just last September!

I'm with Gattenero on the weight thing - weight does matter whether it's to get round a 200+km sportive or dragging camping gear over alpine passes - if I can do it lighter (within reason) I will.

So my sportive bike weighs a squidge over 7kg, what's not carbon is Ti - I think there are a few bits of aluminium around the wheels - I need strength and reliability. The tourer is 10.5kg, to go camping it gains another 7kg of bags and kit - this is down from my first weigh in ten years ago when I took a 12kg bike (I later shaved 4kg off that bike by changing things like seatpost and racks to lighter stuff) with 15kg of kit.

Oh i'm sure I'd do much the same rides on something heavier but given the choice i'll go for lighter - my lightest touring rig to date has been the 7kg carbon with a Ti rack and @ 5kg of luggage for a three week trip around Austria. (at @ £5k worth it was maybe a bit over the top but as the advert goes, i'm worth it!)

If I didn't think any part was up to my riding it wouldn't get onto my bikes, so i've got predominantly alloy bars (well they're oversize carbon on one bike :D ) one pair of Cinelli 64's were given to me in 1976 but the rest are fairly generic BBB or own brand stuff. All of the al bars weigh in between 330g and 280g (the 64's are 300g) The older '1"' bars tend to creak a bit but the oversize bars don't, a combination of stiffer bars and larger clamp areas with the front load stems. Interestingly, the 64's are clamped in a Shimano Dura Ace stem and donce suffer from the creaking of other similar bars i've got on bikes.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

cycle tramp
Posts: 1069
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Snapped bars

Postby cycle tramp » 9 Apr 2017, 10:09pm

Tell you what, I'll google the chap, on condition you book yourself for a recumbent test ride, perhaps its not just my eyes that need opening, eh?

Samuel D
Posts: 3080
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby Samuel D » 9 Apr 2017, 10:21pm

While we’re Googling (not that I believe cycle tramp really needs to in this instance), a cursory check did not reveal the availability of steel drop bars except ones for track racers.

Possibly a good frame builder could make steel stems and bars. I imagine they would be heavy but perhaps not prohibitively so. Cost would be, I’m sure.

mercalia
Posts: 14578
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Snapped bars

Postby mercalia » 9 Apr 2017, 10:55pm

cycle tramp wrote:
Gattonero wrote:I'll never get tired of saying this: people does not know -or deliberately forgets about it- that the steel bike used by Eddie Mercx for his hour record attempt, was so light that is was believed it could break during the attempt, and Ernesto Colnago himself was on the track with an identical spare bike.


Sorry, no idea who this fellow is. Clearly though, the fact that you do, does indicate that we may see cycling from two different aspects... I view cycling as a mass transit solution for minor distances, as well as a useful piece of touring equipment.. Weigh therefore is not all important..how do you view cycling?



was the Muhammad Ali of cycling? You know who Muhammad Ali was? :wink:

PH
Posts: 9979
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 9 Apr 2017, 11:01pm

Gattonero wrote:No idea who Eddie Mercx is? Well, ok... put it this way, no other cyclist has won so many road races and he was so talented that would excell in grand tours, track racing, classic one-day races, hour record, and more.

It's way off topic but a shame when people can only see cycling in terms of sport. I cycle every day, around 10,000 miles a year, it's my main means of transport, I also ride round a few Audax for fun, 12 so far this season. Most of my holidays are awheel, tent on the back and off exploring and yet it seems I'm somehow a lesser cyclist because I don't follow the sport...

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 16727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby mjr » 10 Apr 2017, 12:52am

Samuel D wrote:While we’re Googling (not that I believe cycle tramp really needs to in this instance), a cursory check did not reveal the availability of steel drop bars except ones for track racers.

Don't Google. SearX and find https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/ ... mp-silver/ just for one random UK result
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

PH
Posts: 9979
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 10 Apr 2017, 7:09am

mjr wrote:
Samuel D wrote:While we’re Googling (not that I believe cycle tramp really needs to in this instance), a cursory check did not reveal the availability of steel drop bars except ones for track racers.

Don't Google. SearX and find https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/ ... mp-silver/ just for one random UK result

That's a track bar
Surly make some decent looking steel bars, but not drops
http://surlybikes.com/parts/handlebars/cheater_bar

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 5251
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Snapped bars

Postby foxyrider » 10 Apr 2017, 8:34am

cycle tramp wrote:Tell you what, I'll google the chap, on condition you book yourself for a recumbent test ride, perhaps its not just my eyes that need opening, eh?

You assume too much - done the cucumber thing, pretty useless for the riding I like to do and the terrain I live in. Much like trikes, they aren't for me.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

hamster
Posts: 3786
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Snapped bars

Postby hamster » 10 Apr 2017, 9:46am

MikeDee wrote:
PH wrote:Well, got round to removing the bars from the bike. I was wrong about the make, they're M-wave rather than Kalloy.
A little shocked at the state of them, there's a few marks that look like they could develop cracks and a fair bit of corrosion under the Rohloff shifter, as well as pretty scored by the Handlebar bracket. Maybe an accident waiting to happen.
Moving on, new kit ordered, Nitto bars and Zenith stem.
ImageP1000331 by Paul, on Flickr


Good move changing the stem too, as it may have contributed to the failure since it occurred at the edge of the stem clamp.


Unsurprising they failed. That knurled area in the centre is a series of crack start sites. Appalling design and an accident waiting to happen. Sympathy for the OP, people should not be sold garbage like this.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 16727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby mjr » 10 Apr 2017, 9:56am

PH wrote:
mjr wrote:Don't Google. SearX and find https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/ ... mp-silver/ just for one random UK result

That's a track bar

Is that calling any steel drop bars "track", like Wiggle do?

hamster wrote:Unsurprising they failed. That knurled area in the centre is a series of crack start sites. Appalling design and an accident waiting to happen. Sympathy for the OP, people should not be sold garbage like this.

It's a pretty common design these days. I'm more concerned by what looks like a dent on the right (non-cracked) side of the knurled area, matching one on the left right by the crack. Had it been fitted by someone who hangs off a long-handled hex key until it moves no longer (because you want the bars as tight as can be, right? :roll: ) rather than using a torque wrench?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 18754
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Snapped bars

Postby Vorpal » 10 Apr 2017, 10:05am

PH wrote:
Gattonero wrote:No idea who Eddie Mercx is? Well, ok... put it this way, no other cyclist has won so many road races and he was so talented that would excell in grand tours, track racing, classic one-day races, hour record, and more.

It's way off topic but a shame when people can only see cycling in terms of sport. I cycle every day, around 10,000 miles a year, it's my main means of transport, I also ride round a few Audax for fun, 12 so far this season. Most of my holidays are awheel, tent on the back and off exploring and yet it seems I'm somehow a lesser cyclist because I don't follow the sport...

Having an appreciation of Eddy Merckx' accomplishments doesn't necessarily mean only seeing cycling in terms of sport.

I ride my bike to work and the shops & occasionally do touring. I've done some rides that require reasonable fitness and endurance (100 miles per day), but it's not really my cup of tea. I'd rather wander randomly & take pictures & see tourist attractions. 60 miles a day with cake and tea stops is more my speed.

But I still appreciate Eddy Merckx. What Eddy Merckx did on a record-making ride doesn't have much to do, though, with me riding my bike to work. And not following sport doesn't make anyone a 'lesser cyclist', and I haven't heard anyone suggest it. Eddie Mercx was practically a household name in the day, like others who are really good at any sport. Oh and it's a brand of bicycles, now as well http://www.eddymerckx.com/about-us

As regards the handlebars, the change in diameter, and the knurling both introduce stress risers. That is the most likely place for bars to fail. IMO, Those bars have likely outlived their design intent by twice as much.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

PH
Posts: 9979
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 10 Apr 2017, 10:39am

mjr wrote:
PH wrote:
mjr wrote:Don't Google. SearX and find https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/ ... mp-silver/ just for one random UK result

That's a track bar

Is that calling any steel drop bars "track", like Wiggle do?

No, it's what the manufacture calls it as it’s a specific track design and the wrong shape to fit standard levers to, just google (or the search engine of choice) Nitto B123
Had it been fitted by someone who hangs off a long-handled hex key until it moves no longer (because you want the bars as tight as can be, right? :roll: ) rather than using a torque wrench?

No, it'd been fitted by me with a torque wrench.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 16727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby mjr » 10 Apr 2017, 10:57am

PH wrote:
mjr wrote:
PH wrote:That's a track bar

Is that calling any steel drop bars "track", like Wiggle do?

No, it's what the manufacture calls it as it’s a specific track design and the wrong shape to fit standard levers to, just google (or the search engine of choice) Nitto B123

The manufacturer just calls it "B123 Steel". They do describe it as a track bar, but they call quill stems track too - I suspect it just denotes that they're NJS approved, so can be used for track competition in their home market.

Anyway, don't get hung up on that one model. There are plenty of others out there.
Last edited by mjr on 10 Apr 2017, 11:03am, edited 1 time in total.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

PH
Posts: 9979
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 10 Apr 2017, 11:00am

mjr wrote:Anyway, don't get hung up on that one model. There are plenty of others out there.

Like Samuel D, I can't find them.